Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

While I remember it, many thanks to Scott today. Made me feel a lot better about my figures.

And like Nige, the boost does drop off at around 6000 in 3rd but holds it all the way to the redline in 4th - 5th - 6th, if he had done it 4th as we thought, it may have been slightly different :roll: But, hey ho. Still feels bloody good. :doubleup:

Going to take it to PE with Martyn when he gets his back on the road and see if it makes a difference. But as Scott says, it could be made to give good roller figures with minimal work that would actually give me no benefits anywhere else. So not really worth it.

Bring on the ring! :twisted:


CJ

Many thanks fella for arranging the day, all went like clockwork. Well done :doubleup:

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

THANK YOU :yeah: :yeah:

Nige for taking me. :10: :doubleup:

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

Glad to help/advise, just a shame I can't adjust your map due to ECUTEK lockout. I can sort Nige's in less time then it takes to fire up the laptop but will probably leave it until the next mod/map or somewhere in Germany !!!!!

I think you have both come to the right conclusion i.e it holds boost well on the road (unlike the dyno), so just enjoy and forget the Dyno figure, just go with your road Dyno's.
They do have a tendancy to do this some times, and there are many a post on other forums where target boost on dyno is a fair bit less then on road.

Very pleased with my result today, last time was 305 and was hoping for similar or maybe 320 with the mods I have made (Silicon Induction as old OE one split, Apexi Power Intake and a touch leaner), so 335 was a real bonus. Just goes to show what a UK can do with some matched mods :doubleup:

Lastly thanks to Charlie at SRR and CJ for organising.

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

As this was my first trip out i had a really great day :10: Nice to meet some of you at last.I was pleased with mine as it has 147k thought it would go bang but instead made 236.5 bhp/236.5 lb ft Quite happily i was told there is more there if i get the fueling sorted/re-map but it's nice and safe at the moment and i think i am going to leave it alone as it's quick enough for me :doubleup: Great photo's as well.

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

Great day,nice to see everyone and thanks to CJ...top man.
results 309.7 and 300lbs

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

Your figures were cracking yesterday matey. I bet you are well chuffed.

Both yours and Keiths scoobs looked spot on Yesterday 8-)

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

Well looks and sounds like everyone had a good day, well done C.J :doubleup:

Gutted i missed it, had the kids this weekend and they wouldn't of liked to be stood up there all day....oh well next time.

Love the banner, great job Worzel :doubleup:

Liking the pictures guys and the results :doubleup:

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

Is that the original Wagon Wheel???

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

I didnt like this r&r day one little bit 321bhp my backside :notworking: In fact my backside dyno tells me more like 360ish :drive: After having Cosworth's Previous Evo's & M3's my bum's a very good dyno thank you. Anyway moan over nice to meet some new face's thanks to C.J. for sorting it all out. BIG thanks to Scott for sorting my car. :yeah:

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

Thanks for the thank you comments but dont think i will bother again

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

Lol Rich :10:

It's not! But if it was made of chocolate, it might be...................

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

Why not?

There was nothing wrong with the day you organised. Just because a couple of us aren't happy with the results (and yes I include myself in that :roll: ) it doesn't mean the day as a whole was not appreciated.

I was expecting my figures to be down but I know that the ones he gave are wrong. In hindsight, I wish I had asked him to do another run in 4th. I shall just have to take it to PE for a run.

If they come up with the same figures then I will just have to shut up and take it :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :lol:

But I doubt they will, even if we have to have an quick tinker to get the boost holding to the redline. :norty:

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

asked about 4th for 6 speeds and it will not make any or a little differents ( 1 or 2 BHP/Lbs)
if you are that un happy I can arrange for you to go back and I'm sure he'll charge just £35
that way you will get a comparsion between your 4th and 3rd on the same rollers

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

Martyn is taking his to PE anyway, so I will just go there matey. They can also tweek the map to hold boost a bit longer if I wanted it.

Mate, none of this is a criticism of you. As I said, I still had a good day out. And most people walked away very happy so overall it was a well organised day.

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

Mate i had a great day my figures were down on what we thought but it was more of a health check for me,i now know i am running safe but could if i want to get more with a new map.As for PE i phoned them today and was told they are moving at the moment so no dyno for 8-12 weeks (so no mapping) :doubledown:

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

Cheers for the info Wez. Martyn may have to re-think then.

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

So what were these low figures then?

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

can have it mapped at surrey !
just got off the phone to pat my mapper and he said that worzels in 4th would be even less at about 312 to 315 bhp !

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

Mine is a Ecutek did not think they could do it at Surrey ??? due to this license business.

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

Anything can be mapped at Surrey :doubleup:

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

Now i am :confused:

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

I think you will find your figures just about spot on, Charlie is one of the most qualified RR operators in the business, he has loads of independent testers results in his portfolio..
If you are after pub figures take it to PE, you will come away happy :whistle:

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

I think its irelievant what Steves made, its proven that certain settings for road dont seem to allow boost to hold whilst on the rollers.
I am sure if Pat,Bob or scott had an hour with Steves or Nigels car on the rollers they could make the necessary changes to acheive good numbers.
One thing i do know steves car is proper quick on the road, very strong.

CJ its about time you took me out in yours, must be mad, going by how good steves feels.
I not been out in a scoob over 350bhp yet!

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

I am certainly no expert but i do have a modicum of common sense.

Something has to wrong here, Bob Rawl is a well respected and very experienced with mapping,
Scott is also experienced .

Bob and Scott surely cant both be wrong to the extent that the figures are indicating,
I know who my money is on.

My scoob when Ive been alongside or behind Worzels, has been equal to or marginally behind, and that was before its latest remap.
( cum to think of it though mines carrying more wieght). :lol:

On Saturday on the way to the RR whilst I was passenger with Nige his scoob felt quick!

So unfortunately that means judging by the results my WR1 must running about 285 BHP, or less fooking PRODRIVE. :lol:

There must be something wrong with the results!!!

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

[quote=BIG E]I am certainly no expert but i do have a modicum of common sense.

Something has to wrong here, Bob Rawl is a well respected and very experienced with mapping,
Scott is also experienced .

Bob and Scott surely cant both be wrong to the extent that the figures are indicating,
I know who my money is on.

My scoob when Ive been alongside or behind Worzels, has been equal to or marginally behind, and that was before its latest remap.
( cum to think of it though mines carrying more wieght). :lol:

On Saturday on the way to the RR whilst I was passenger with Nige his scoob felt quick!

So unfortunately that means judging by the results my WR1 must running about 285 BHP, or less fooking PRODRIVE. :lol:

There must be something wrong with the results!!![/quote:1rrjhg6g]
If you want to find out put the pooh cheap delta dash laptop thing on a car will on the rollers and see what the same run say !

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

you only have to ask .
May be a while as the box is getting changed and will have to wait for the DCCD control to be shipped from the states !
400bhp to the rear wheels for a while ! :whistle:

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

nothing like a good old rolling road to stir up a bit of power debate............................................ ........
i myself know i have a large p3nis! so i dont feel the need to attend lol. :hitfan:

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

That will be interesting through the rear wheels, dont go out in the wet :doh:

Whats the benifit on DCCD, i know sod all about them.

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

:doubleup: :doubleup: :doubleup:

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

My delta dash results showed 300/310, the rollers on Saturday showed 280/260..
I trust the rollers myself after using them since day 1, hosting several RR events and seeing loads of cars mapped on them.
Ask GRD how well his cars produce figures on them, he is in the business where his customers would like the quoted figures for the work done.
As for quoting Bob, he has only ever used PE for his R&D.
These RR arguments have been going on for years..

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

I my opinion if you want the pub talk figures, get it mapped on the rollers instead of the road :whistle:

If you feel that it drives/pulls well does it really matter what the figures are???

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

You can a just how much power you split from front to back
On the aftermarket control i have you can do 100% rear or front or anything inbetween if i have understood correct !

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

Just to put things straight,
There is nothing wrong with the results achieved for both Nige's and Worzels car on the rollers and no-one is at fault (mapper or RR operator).
For the boost they achieved at the top end of the rpm range, the power is about right.
My car was actually 0.1-0.2bar higher then their's hence I was marginally ahead on power.

Don't just look at the power figure plot, look at all the others that Charlies supplied, they all tell a story.....
Neither car made the boost on the rollers that they do on the road, regardless of gear.
If the car was hitting the top limit of the WGDC (Max Waste Gate Duty cycle) it wouldn't make much difference which gear it was in).
Normally a car will achieve slightly higher boost in the higher gears, hence more power. But the ECU in these cars has 2 WGDC maps to help maintain a more even boost per gear with a degree of self-learning. However, too much WGDC and you get boost spikes/oscillation in 5th/6th which can lead to lean mixture/detonation etc.....it's a fine balance.

Both cars hold 1.4bar out on the road so will be getting v.close to the expected figures of 340-350BHP for Worzel and 360-370BHP for Nige.

Retrospectivley looking a Nige's log we took when Road dyno'd he was hitting 35% WGDC for 1.45bar, Initial WGDC was 33, top limit was 38%.
On the rollers it may of been hitting 38% due to the different load effect of the rollers. It will not go beyond 38%, hence boost levels may not hit target.

All this is my take on the situation, and I am investigating further........

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

As i have said i went to have a check up.From what my car has had done 260 was the rough guide Charlie also expected this when it came out @ 236bhp i was not unhappy.All the mod's i have done have made the car feel a whole lot better on the road.If i had come away with standard Subaru figures i would of been happy also as i think this would of been a good result as mine has 147k on it.When i set one of my bikes up on the Dyno i have always used for it it rode like s**t but was doing good bhp,i reset it back up for the road which made it feel great again but lost 7bhp on the dyno so i think a lot is swings and roundabouts.I am still talking about saturday and my brother is getting bored of the video :getmecoat:

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

Thanks Scott, that explains things beautifully.

I know the figures I got are not reflective of how the car feels. I know for a fact that the scoob feels so much more pokey than my completely unmolested M3, which should be 343BHP & 360nm. I drive the M3 every day and the scoob wets all over it. I know that the M3 is heavier, but even so the difference is massive. My scoob was beating M3's on the old map let alone this new one. (tore one to shreds last year on the East Peckham by pass, much to the other guys disgust :lol: )

As said in a couple of posts in this thread, it's how it feels. The good old "Bum in seat" dyno doesn't usually get it wrong.

In fairness, anyone who saw Nige having a play with CJ on the M25 on the way to the meet, would say that there is never in a million years 80bhp difference between the two cars. Blast for blast (nothing silly for any watching fuzz :roll: ) was completely even.

I have no doubts about Chris's figures, his car was mapped on those rollers so it should be showing good returns on them. I just know that Niges and my own just don't seem right at all.

As AP said above, the debates will always happen. And will no doubt rumble on. But nothing takes away from the fact we had a great day out. We got to watch Rob donut around the car park, Martyn wore a pigs head and Chocks Chockington had his first tentative try at "formation Parking"! Happy days.

Group hug anyone? :cath:

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

Yep the formation parking was fun my first time also :whistle: and it was a great day out.As for donuts my old Capri would have shown that m3 how to do it properly :lol: Bodie and Doyle style :doubleup:

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

I reckon if CJ's scoob wasn't there, he might have done a few more! :doubleup:

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

All this talk of figures and the like! Piffle and balderdash what what!

The fact it was run by a man with a BMW makes me think that this is just another of the fiendish Huns plots, to undermine our good old boys morale.

I think we have lost a bit of the blitz spirit down to this fiendish and dare I say scurrelous and underhand double agents tactics. I've a good mind to scurry round to the fellow and biff him on the nose what what! But I would not bring my name or that of the TMT into question, just to slake this Huns thirst for angst among fellow SES Members.

For Queen and St George! Hurrah! What what!!

Re: Rolling road day 14th March 2009
 

Hi Chocks.

Now you can see why Ken Cobalt is needed as "secret spy" and has no time for the Squadron!!