Quiet on here today...
 

Is everyone too busy panicking about our so-called impending doom now that Britain has voted out of the EU? :tumbleweed:

Going to be an interested couple of years ahead... who knows if its the right or wrong thing. What do you folks reckon? (if you're not bored of hearing about it already ;))

Ive banned Brexit talk in the office - :lol:

I've had a whole 1 lesson to teach today so have filled my day with Marking!

I have to say it's all very interesting add the Scottish response to the mix alongside the petition for a further referendum and the fact that the first one isn't actually legally binding then who knows!

in my limited view - I believe there are pros and cons to both and lets face it - no matter who's in charge they are all as corrupt as each other...

Sure it will all come out in the wash...

Its interesting that in recent weeks various European politicians have come across quite aggressive with their statements about us being at the back of the queue if we leave etc, in an attempt to scare us into staying.

Now we've left, they're trying to go softly softly, keep things calm. I expect Merkel is cacking it, they're the largest economy left in the EU holding up the likes of Greece, Italy, Portugal etc. It'll only get worse for them if France or Holland call their own referendum, which sounds like it may be on the cards....

I think its a bad decision. There will be more paperwork needed for the visa's to enter France, Belgium and Germany on the way to the Ring - its going to add 3 hours per trip, EACH WAY

I was a bit stunned at the result. Seem to be some trends in the age demographic.

I say - best of three ?

Cameron's going - I thought he was good.

Markets are screwed. House prices will drop a bit. There will be uncertainty for the next two years and recession will come back into the media's tag lines.

History will confirm if this was a good or bad decision. For me I think it was the wrong decision.

The first bit Nick said! not to mention roaming charges at the Ring, very disappointed to say the least

They've not been that soft. I heard talk of, "serious consequences" from one of them (I was only half listening). The worry is that the UK is made an example of to try and stave off any others looking to leave.

In terms of "right or wrong" there's no such thing in my opinion. It's not what I wanted. I'm an economist from my degree days and used to work at the Treasury, so that uncertainty is a big no no.

I'm also in professional services now, so need prospering businesses to do well. I am up for a significant milestone promotion in the autumn, so from a very selfish perspective, I'm concerned the uncertainty may scupper the business case. It's been the years in the making, so I'll be a bit miffed.

My wife works in the public sector; that's unlikely to be a great place to be.

My biggest gripe is the way the campaigns were run and the particular irony of today which I've set out:-

1) there were lots of opinions passed off as facts (on both sides). The voting public seemed to buy that, meaning utterly baseless comments were taken as gospel.

Within an hour of the results being settled Farage reneged on the NHS pledge and another chap acknowledged migration wouldn't be successfully curbed.

2) we were told to vote leave to take back control of our country from unelected officials ruling us. This was taken very seriously by some (see 1) above re opinion vs fact. It is a fact that the Commissioners are elected. It is an opinion that the process lacks democracy... which I'm not wholly against as an opinion BTW).

Anyway, within two hours of the results we found out there will be a new PM no later than October... the public will not vote that person in. They will be unelected by my measure.

3) people were told you can't trust experts, especially on the economy. The immediate effect was exactly as the experts, most notably Mark Carney, foretold. He was vilified by leave supporters, yet whose plan and actions have helped enormously to steady the markets today? Yep. Mark Carney and his band of economic experts.

Those for me highlighted the rotten nature of the leave campaign.

Remain ran a poor campaign. Corbyn went deliberately missing which really didn't help.

The more powerful campaign won, but through untruths and appealing to some unpleasant values (in my opinion) to swell the numbers.

I saw some articulate and reasoned arguments for leaving. I don't believe they were what won it though. Bile and hatred played too big a part, together with an overgrown child with ridiculous hair making a power grab.

Sorry.... you did ask...

Oh and by the way, if you didn't like the outcome you can petition for a rerun as the vote was marginal.

There's a proposal for either side to invoke that if the other fell short of 60%.

Sorry, been chatting to this guy

http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/x...psfe2mrckk.jpg

lol no need to apologise mate, some good points there. :)

I agree with you on some - and i am also worried that some in Brussels might try to make a bad example of us with the threat of other countries following on the horizon. Hopefully that won't be the case though.

I was still undecided right up to the end, and chose not to vote as I couldn't decide which way was best. The majority of arguments for the Remain side made sense to me, but the big elephant in the room was that I think the EU will be shafted within the next 10 years. How long will the ECB keep pushing QE (going from $60b to $80b a month from March) and how far will Germany go with bailout after bailout for Greece before it all falls over.

I'm not an economist by any means, but surely if that's a possibility then its a good time (purely from a UK perspective) to leave rather than having to share the financial burden when it happens?

This is the thing though, we had secured that we wouldn't contribute to such bail outs, via a rebate. So in my opinion, the smart move for an uncertain person was to vote remain (that's not a dig by the way).

We could always seek to withdraw again, that was in our gift. Trying to rejoin if leave turns sour is very difficult and means all our special arrangements are lost... including keeping the pound!

I found this interesting... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...g-to-leave-it/

The implication is that many people did not realise what the true seriousness of the vote.

I heard a chap interviewed who said he didn't want the Scots to leave, he just wasn't sure about the EU, so he regrets his vote. That was quite a clear risk, but he seemed to have got carried away.

I still believe we may not leave (which Boris hinted at months ago). If the other members are sensible they'll open up and reform to appease all unhappy members and seek to give a deal to keep us. If there's a second referendum or a general election the decision may be reversed. It's a remote, but not too remote, prospect.

Unfortunately, the right wing is all over this like a seagull on dropped chips which will make it tough!

You need to get into politics mate:ok:,that was an enjoyable read and sums up my thoughts exactly:agreed:.SJ.

Glad we are out and know a few friends that have had a bumper day selling to the USA today. So much for bad for business, we all know that it's going to take a couple of years to settle but in 5 years time I don't think one of you will regret us leaving.
Just my thoughts so won't be of interest to anyone lol

Tough one this. I too was on the fence so kept my vote, there are clearly pro's and con's to both sides but we won't know if the right decision was made for quite some time.

Part of me is still a little skeptical it will actually go ahead. There is a chance that we rush and envoke article 50 though. Once we push that button I doubt we can go back. I think Europe is more shocked than we are too, they batted aside the threats during the previous negotiations and I doubt they believed this day would come. Whatever happens it certainly will be interesting, there are so many potential outcomes you could spend all day pondering and listing but bizarrely I don't think any stand out as being the most likely yet, all we have is uncertainty at the moment.

I don't think the markets today were truly representative, apart from showing how panicked this has got everyone and they shud stabilise over time, although anythings possible.

Quite surprised that so many jumped straight on the bandwagon for a referendum. I thought they might wait and see how this panned out before they stuck their own necks out. It kind of makes sense tho... rats and sinking ships an all.

I just hope for the sake of my children and the younger generation who had no voice in this, that it wasn't a really bad call by a lot of bitter (and rightly so in a lot of cases) people from older generations. Sometimes something drastic has to happen for people to sit up an take notice. Fingers crossed this works out for everyone in the long run... Europe too!

On a side note... I may get slaughtered for saying this... but is anyone else a little intrigued by the prospect of Boris being PM? I know I shouldn't be but I find it a fascinating although slightly scary prospect!

we voted, the majority said out, now lets get on with life and live with it. Trouble is the UK will never be a happy, joined in patriotism nation, we've turned into a bunch of moaning, inflated ego, unpolite and selfish race as a whole, that quite frankly when I go abroad are quite embarrassed about.

not saying I am or not one of them, i'll let you have your own opinion on that.

can't wait until this all dies down and we just get back on track.

If it was someone else's country, perhaps...! :lol:

There's quite a bit of opposition to him in the party from what I have seen today, so it's by no means a done deal. However, that has been his objective throughout I would say. If Cameron had been for out, Boris would have been for in, I'm convinced of it; complete power grab.

I think that makes him more than slightly scary as it shows he has values I don't want in my PM. I really do not like Cameron (that'd be another essay!), but I ended up feeling a bit sorry for him today... not too bad of course!

I thinks it's because I get so bored and frustrated with British politics (just politics in general really) that I hope he might bring some kind of willy wonka crazy reform and make life a little more exciting... careful what you wish for though, right!

I think a Boris vs Trump summit would be comedy gold!

I think that's very insightful. There is this odd sense of entitlement that runs through British culture and I am not sure where it comes from.

Bit tangential but bear with me. I saw a woman who was on benefits to a significant extent on a documentary (few years back). She was asked why she wouldn't get a job and responded, "I'd do any job as long as it paid me £60k... I'd happily make tea for £60k."

Well, I'd be bored to death, but in principle wouldn't we all be happy with that? A piece of piss job that paid a decent salary.

I know how hard I worked to get to the stage of career where I earned £60k (about when I saw that documentary) and I know the guys who work in my team currently on that money... each does a lot more than make tea.

But that woman had no sense of that, just that she should be entitled to the lifestyle that money brings, not to earn it in any meaningful way; didn't compute.

I could give similar examples with people from each of the traditional "classes" and not just about money, so don't misunderstand me. It's across the board in my opinion.

We're a nation of spoilt brats (as with you, you can judge if I fit the profile :D).

Perhaps this referendum will bring back some of the positive, "stiff upper lip" traits, or some new ones, that are worthy of national pride. I won't hold my breath...

Agreed (again though, if they weren't really important positions that they held).

Boris and Hilary could be quite amusing too.

All I know is my trip to Germany next week is probably going to cost me more than it would have if we stayed in!

Fannies that sums it up for me :rofl:

You'll get another trip to the Polling Station soon...!

I know lets see how that goes :roll:

I was surprised we voted to leave. Pound and stock market plummeted as expected, but in fact the French and Germany markets fared worse than the UK. Comment in the French papers is that France may not be long to have their own vote on the EU.Would be interesting if another country votes to leave.

Having watched all this from the safety of my castle on 1300 acre's of land....

Here's my two pennies worth.

1. Both sides used ridiculous amounts of spin, lies what ever you want to call it. But I'm afraid to say, it was the "In"s that were the most venomous. I believe the continuos calling of the "Out" side racists lost them a huge amount of votes. My wife, and a few others we socialise with were on the fence, but the constant name calling and bullying made them vote out in the end. Reasoning? You only have to look at the final map to see why, this wasn't about immigration at all in the end, it was about wealth. The hardest areas hit by cuts had large majorities swinging towards out. Can you imagine how it feels for a struggling parent, who needs to go to a food bank, works when he/she can find work, but the rich, stuck up there own arse southerners are calling you a racist/bigot/xenophobe?? The dictionary definition of racists should be changed to " Some one who doesn't vote the same as you"

Facebook yesterday was a joke, 1000s upon 1000s were still calling openly, them racists, with the old pathetic chestnut of " If you voted out, unfriend me..."

2. Then, following on from the above. This is how the campaign when in some areas...How are you voting? Out...walks away and thinks " racist" When the focus should have been on engagement, ie So your voting out? Why is that then, what are you reasons...then gone from there. It was a poorly fought campaign from the In.

But its done now, change is not always a bad thing, And with others looking to follow suit, Who knows, a much better EU may come from this.

This.

And the fact that too many in the British population seem to think they're entitled to a free ride. All a side effect of the benefits culture that's grown under previous governments?

And as for Sturgeon :lol:

Not aiming this at you Scotty, so don't worry :D but the Scots voted to stay a part of the United Kingdom (for a whole host of reasons). To accept the government and choices of the United Kingdom as a whole. Well, now the UK has voted for Brexit as a whole, suddenly it looks like a case of 'well you didn't do what we wanted, so we'll see if we can leave again'. You chose to stick with the UK then, so stick with us now.

:thanx: :mrgreen:

Indeed mate. I'm not sure what the talk of being an 'associated partner country' actually means for us or Europe yet, but the vote will force a lot of people, in our Government and in Brussels to look very hard at themselves and consider different options that would never have been possible before.

As you say, no reason to think change has to be bad.... its done, so let concentrate on making the best of it for the UK. Maybe we can be a Great Britain again in the future.

I was surprised how little they were affected, if i'm honest. FTSE 100 has already recovered to the level (in fact, slightly higher!) than it was at Monday 20th.

£ vs Euro exchange rate has set at 1.23 this weekend, but was only 1.27 last weekend. Not a major crash.

It's interesting when scotland and also London and the boroughers voted to stay but the rest of the country voted out bad move tbh as the trading will stop as not part of the EU but what gets me is all the people are now saying we are racist when were not .

All this racist talk is bull, where did it even come from? Immigration is an issue, but its not the only (or most important) issue!!

This might lighten the mood...
https://www.buzzfeed.com/robinedds/b...azK#.jr5PrvN0e

:lol:

:hbags::lol:

No matter what you voted or your thoughts on the result. I just wish everyone would calm themselfs and chill. Watching the news is depressing as its just an onslaught of finger wagging and saying we've made the wrong choice.

Fact is there are no locust, the plague is dead and as far as i can see the 3 horseman havent arrived yet... it'll all work itself out :)

As for the scottish issue...she'd call for a referendum if David Cameron farted the wrong scent north of the hadrian. She'll always call for a referendum as long as they are elected.

I just seen a load of racist crap on FB by a few people who actually been living in the uk for sometime slating because we as a country voted to leave the EU but i bet it be the same group of indivduals playing the racist card as i use to see it alot but we all know them as :cuckoo:

Excuse me :fight:

I think that's where we'll get to. I thought that's where we would have got to had we stayed, it'll now just be separate paths to the same destination... who knows which would have been more/less painful?

Your points made throughout the referendum were sensible and well thought through, so I enjoyed seeing them (and disagreeing and challenging. ;))

Perhaps not a major immediate crash, but those aren't the best measures really.

Look at the FTSE 250. Arguably a broader and better measure. That was hit far harder.

Even after recovering that was still down 7% I think.

The £:€ is bound to move less unfavourably because the uncertainty affects both quite directly. The $ is the better measure and that was far worse.

That will be partly why CJ's mates had bumper trading days with the US.

All our pension funds to a kick in the knackers yesterday, but that's not real money.

The losses on the markets were (at one point) equal to about thirty years of EU contributions, which should put in context the "scaremongering" on the economy. Those sorts of hits to business are tough to justify, but at the same time, they don't tell the full story as share price dips don't, of themselves, mean the underlying businesses are in any way performing worse... it's all conjecture!

What fun?!

Would be interesting to see a spilt of generations eligible to vote, as I think the outcome was a generation split and based on what the older generation perceive as the good old days 50's-70's when they were young and free.

How may of us have had the old folks round for dinner and cringed when they spout something out about race, colour or immigration or comment of something on the TV.
This is normally followed by a stony silence or your attempt to change the subject.

Immigration won't be impacted much, because as soon as you limit the numbers the civil/human rights brigade will jump on it.
We just need to manage it better and tell the truth about numbers and employment status. Unfortunately both of these things are normally the polar opposite of what out politicians do.

The race/immigration thing was definitely the only issue for the guy I saw interviewed on the news in Bradford. I was quite shocked.

We're quite insulated from that in London and the South East and, as Nick said above, that's because it's where the wealth and opportunity clusters.

If you've got unemployment issues and a large immigration population, you could have perfectly legitimate reasons for that being a concern. There are undoubtedly racist people in the country, so the lines get blurred, which helps no one.

:agreed: 100%

We've been hearing about the EU for the last 3 months, (getting fed up now)
the decision is made now we need to let the dust settle and take a deep breath, be positive and go forward. :ok:

Thought I'd share these...

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/art...ng--Z1btq_FnVW

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/art...d--Z1772TI4aNW

Unbelievable how stoopid people actually are........

Absolutely spot on, couldn't agree more.

I'm disappointed with the result, and voted to remain. On Friday, I was cross and upset by the result, so my mood is getting better, hopefully that will continue...

I've not seen many discussions of the topic that don't immediately descend into name calling and general nastiness, so this thread is a welcome break!

To respond to a few points made earlier:

I don't think we'll see a second referendum on the EU, or that they will drag their heels so much we never actually leave. No politician could justify that based on the terms of the referendum, which was a straightforward in/out choice, with no conditions on the size of the margin to count it as valid.

Scotland voted to stay in the UK partly because they wanted to be part of the EU, and it's much easier to do that if you are already in. Cameron assured them that the UK would remain (and probably thought we would), so the UK result does change things and it seems fair enough for Scotland to have another vote. I don't want to see the UK break up so it would be a shame, but all parts of Scotland voted to stay in the EU, so it seems unfair to drag them out because of the vote in England and Wales.

I saw a very interesting survey somewhere on Twitter which asked people whose opinions they trusted, from politicians, academics, economists, journalists, celebrities etc. Those who said they would vote leave didn't trust ANYONE! When the evidence and opinion about the effect of leaving was quite clearly in favour of remaining (especially from an economic point of view), I suppose that might go some way to explaining the result.

Demographic groups with a higher likelihood of voting to leave were: over 50s, those with fewer qualifications, those living in less ethnically diverse areas, those with lower earnings. Groups with a higher likelihood of voting to remain were: under 35s, those with degree-level education, those living in areas with a higher proportion of people not born in the UK.

The main thing about the whole debate was that nobody could predict what would happen if we left, whether it would be better or worse in the long run. Seems like a pretty big gamble to have taken (not least for Cameron!), so let's hope it works out well. I am generally an optimistic person and know that most leave voters are decent people, so hopefully they will show that and we won't lurch to the right and fulfil Farage's dreams, but work together for a reasonable and compassionate future.

The irony of the second referendum petition is that it was initially put forward by a leave supporter.

Farage said back in May if it was 52:48 in favour of remain this would be, "far from over".

So talk from leave supporters that the petition is pathetic makes me chuckle, as were the roles reversed the story would be the same.

Boris has been quiet, but what he's said seems a bit of a climb down... "leave voters must accept that the outcome was not overwhelming"... so he looks to have lost a bit of his nerve.

Really interesting session in parliament today (I was watching from my sick bed).

Just seen Farage on Ch4 news and he's worried that the Conservatives are going to bottle it.

Labour is an utter mess... the amount of shadow cabinet roles going should help the poor sods losing their jobs elsewhere in the economy... there are loads up for grabs!

It's fascinating stuff.

If it wasn't happening to my country, I'd be thoroughly enjoying it... beats Eastenders!