rolling road in st leonards
 

if anyone is looking for a more local rolling road langneys garage services in st leonards has a 4wd rolling road rated to 1200bhp and offer re-maps and will allow other mappers to use it.the rollers are fairly new being 8months old. thay do power runs from £35+vat but do do deals as last saturday thay were doing them for just £30


possible rolling road day anyone?????

I think Scott is looking in to this, sounds good :drive:

Already spoken to Chris, would like feedback from anyone that's been there/used them.

Might pop down one weekend to see how slick he operators and if punters are happy with figures.

The last thing I want is for us lot of RR junkies to turn up, pay good money only to walk away with results well off from what was expected due to the rollers not being calibrated or operated correctly. Fair do's if the car has a problem that gets highlighted but some of us junkies pretty much know what figures to see.

The rollers are alot older then 8 months, as are 2nd hand to Chris.
They are similar to that used by Power Engineering. Thats not a bad thing as it does give a good indication of transmission losses.

Will probably set something up for later in the year.

wish i could be more helpfull but only popped in to get a duplicate mot but while i was there there was a bloke from jrm booking a lambo that had just had a new gearbox and the owner wanted it mapping to 1200bhp! so i do no jrm trust them

LOL....does that mean that JRM's rollers are bust again ???
Nige's EVO must of been on them again......

That Lambo made 800 ish on Jrm's rollers. It would be good to compare. :drive:

Had my car dynoed at the weekend,couple of things IMO I didn't think the cooling fan was big enough,an the the dyno operator couldn't of been lest interested when I asked some questions about the graph. Nice set up thou an handy for me :)

What car?

Mine

Clio :-)

Tony have text you about an MOT but not sure if your on same mob now :-)

Nicole

Yes will look in the book an let you know tomoz :) an yes the clio :) made 190hp, in a car that's 860kgs! Did a few scoobs at brands ;)

We've also got a RR in Littlehampton - Dyno Dynamics same as Surrey and the owner was trained by a certain well known Charlie!

http://westsussexrollingroad.co.uk/

Think i'll stick to SRR

he doesnt work for jrm hes an ex employee

Second that - I'd only go elsewhere for a RR meet with power-runs if it was a big turn out, otherwise I'll stick to Charlies even if I do have to take my own supplies!

Once I've got round to fitting my new turbo and decat I'll being giving Langleys a try for a dyno... Can't see the point of travelling to surrey when I have a Dyno and garage thats got motorsport background within spitting distance from me

I can see the appeal for people who have always had there dyno's done at SRR for continuity and the 'right result'. But as pleasant as Charlie is, the set up is all a bit clicky.! for me..

For me its about the person in charge of the dyno's knowledge and with Charlie and Simon there alot its hard to find better in the SE.... A friend of mine went on a set of rollers the other week and they revved it to its 8'500rpm limiter to then tell him its not running right and a sensor is shot... I wouldnt have been happy if that had been my car

Langleys have alot of motorsport back ground, he rallys a escort cossie and also built a rwd focus cosworth plus when they helped build my track Gti6 they were more than helpfull and gave me the time of day.

I also agree with the Srr commants charlie is laid back and more than helpfull just abit of a trek for us boys down here, when there could be a possible good R/R in spitting distance.

Handy being so local and could be useful that they don't mind outside mappers to use the facilities.

Await Scott's report as to what the set ups like and how reliable the figures are. Also gives us another venue within easy reach for some for a meet of some sort.

Nothing gets the comments going as much as a good old rollers debate! With the exception of everyone's favourite............. Their Oil Choice! :lol:

I would pretty much say that I would stay with SRR, but only because that's where I will get the input and work from Simon (JGM) done. There would not be a vast amount of difference time wise for me so it would take something special to drag me away from what I have got used to. But, never say never.

It will be very interesting to see the comparisons between the 2 rolling roads. Jaffa's Comment doesn't fill me with much joy though. Being a new RR company they really should be doing all they can to give good customer feedback and show some interest, plus if the fan is on the small side that has to be a concern.

Time will no doubt tell :nod:

Im told the fan is very small and the wide band system is not working

+1

I agree the blower looks small compared to SRR, but from memory it's the same as Power Engineering have been using for years,so not sure what it's output capability is.

The wideband is not plumbed in to the RR main system but he does run a wideband innovate probe seperately.

I am sure that the OP wasn't trying to sway anyone away from any other RR, just highlighting that there was one avaialable in Hastings/St.Leonards.

I for one will support any local trader providing the service is acceptable, so am willing to look into this further.

It's a 10 min walk for me, rather then 80 mile drive to SRR so worth investigating.

Someone's got to bite the bullet and try it , then can report if its worth going , like Scott says its only 10 mins for us boys.:rolleyes:

I look forward to reading the report on the place for sure. :nod:

Scott, if I keep my classic long enough to get round to fitting my VF23 and decat, I'll give them a try and if I do I'll let you know when and we check them out... And report back either way.

Its hardly a black art at the end of the day, and if it is it shouldn't be IMO.! But do agree accurate/consistent results is key.

Also worth considering - rather than a tin shack in the arse end of knowhere with a toilet that should have a biohazzard label on the door. Langleys premisses are much nicer with better welfare faclities, full ramp and garage facilities on hand, parking by gargage, walking distance to shops,chippy,kebab shop, pub, and Asda if we ever did do a meet.

They might be rubbish, but does seem daft to not give them due consideration.

That is a point everyone with any amount of sanity would agree with :lol: .

That bog is worse than any I have seen in a long time. It is rumoured that the last time Col Gadaffi visited the UK, he visited Charlie to get samples from his bog, to use in his weapons of mass destruction programme!!

:agreed:

sometimes I think me having a good crap in that bog would actually make it look cleaner!:-o

PMSL

Would rather take my car to someone that knows what they are doing and shows some interest than someone that has a nice toilet but shows no interest at all, SRR is only in the arse end of knowhere if you live in the arse end of knowhere.

I do like a heathy debate. But I’ll stop as it’s not my intention to put down SRR or the Virtu’s for others in using this facility. Despite the slight jibe about toilets but as my mother always sais ‘no excuse for cleanliness’. SRR gets blinding reviews from almost everyone so ‘nuff said’ in that respect.

It’s equally unfair to quickly judge another place, that could potentially offer equal or better facilities that are in East Sussex when they haven’t even really been given a chance. But equally if the owner does ignore forums such as ours and takes no interest then I have little sympathy, and they are fools.

And if anyone was wondering, I have no contact with Langleys or ascociation with Langleys or on a back hander from them for work I can put there way, or receiving any sexual favours :D. I just know they are local, decent facilities, have motorsport background, and regularly hear there dyno being ripped up.!

Debate is great:ok:

If the thought of there being another RR within easy reach of a large ammount of SES members does nothing more than help improve whats available elsewhere, then it can only be a good thing.

Just from this thread its apparant that even people that hold SRR in high regard have some issue with the facilities there. Especially the toilet!!

I know of a local garage that are in the process of moving to new premises because some of the customers were not happy with where they were located!! so the environment does play a part to some people.......

Surely the toilet at SRR only got in a state from the dirty barstewards that use it, would you p1ss on the floor at home and leave it? I think not!!!

Wow a debate great, I'm crap at theses.

No excuse for the state of the place.£50 would put it right Simple as that.
However I don't personally care about the toilet,I do it in my pants anyway.

Not really mate, the fact he can't be arsed to clean up the place and not just the bogs is a joke. I don't care too much and it won't put me off going there to go on the rollers, but it is ****ing rot.

And, if someone pissed on my floor at home they would soon know about it :wink: They would be going home with a mouth full of **** and a black eye :nod:

its about a 10min walk from me so either this weekend or next im guna take 1 for the club an get a power run done on mine.
i post up an update afterwards

No real excuse for it:nono:

I expect people piss on the floor of the toilets at JRM/Sumo, Roger Clarke etc etc.... however, they do get cleaned regularly and all play a part in the overall appearance of the places.

It seems its only the cleanliness that lets SRR down! you would think knowing that they would do something about it?

lmfao :rofl: nice one Worzel

I went to piss in the bushes today... was busting and didn't think i could hold my breath for long enough in there :D

PMSL :lol:

It's bad enough in the winter for the smell, fook knows how bad it is in the heat :shock:

I reckon they should have a monitor in the bog so you can watch your car on the rollers , then if it goes bang, your in the right place :-)

PMSL at this thread :rofl:

Im sure CJ would have time to clean it... :D

CJ is never there, he would never get the chance :wink: :whistle:

It would be safer to just pour some meths in the bog and set it on fire. I can almost hear the bacteria screaming at the thought :mrgreen:

Just booked myself in for a RR run on Friday, as a baseline/benchmark for mine before I get busy with the modding/remapping. Will also be 'Guinea Pig' for SES

Hope all goes well Friday Scott, will be interesting to get your thoughts on the RR. Can't help but wonder what the WC will be like:wink:

It'll be good to get a report then matey, take a picture of the bogs too :ok:

Should be interesting to see where it is power wise at the moment.:ok:

wots with the picture of the bogs.:mrgreen:

Book power for the PPP and according to the Prodrive sticker on the door is 316BHP.
It's boosting bang on what's defined in the boost target map, fuelling is bang on and ignition timing is running full IAM, so the theory say's it should be close....

Bum-Dyno also thinks it's about 300-320BHP, not as quick as my classic (335BHP) due to being down a bit on power and up a bit in weight, but it is acceptable power rather then under-powered at the moment.

Road dyno puts it at about 305BHP, but the test road is very slightly up-hill and road dyno's are very subjective and dependant very much on the parameters configured.

Will be interesting to see what it makes and if I think the rollers are accurate.

SilverSurfer can often be found a round the bogs. :lol:

I dont really want to get into a/the debate but do feel charlies has got a bit of a hard time unecessarily or rather credit has not been given for what it does do.

I have used and do use a lot of dynos all over the country and europe and I dont know of anyone else that takes the time and effort to try and get the correct figures from a car.
I dont know anyone else that is on it as much to stop and get out and adjust strapping or sense when there is something not right.
I can concerntrate on mapping a car and not have to be concerned with anything other than doing so. The fan is very good, the wideband always works, the boost monitoring accurate.
I suspect charlie has dyno'd more cars than most and he has taught a number of people how to operate their dyno.

Yes the loo may not be the best (especially if we have been for a curry the night before) but if the loo was plush and smelt of roses but the dyno operation was as crap as the loo smells would you be happy?

I travel 80miles and 1.5hours to use his dyno for mapping several times most weeks by choice, there are nearer ones, I have tried them and I wouldnt take my car their for a powerrun let alone map a customers car, no I wont name names either.

I am there for the next two days in fact :)
Simon

See you tomorrow Simon :D

Simon,

I don't think this thread was ever a dig at charlie, just an announcement that for those local there 'MAY' be a suitable rolling road.

The thing about the loo just kinda got carried away........

I'm about to dust off the old Blue one and head up to Charlie's in a bit - yes it could be cleaner but the dyno is spot on and on the times I've just had a 'power run' even without Simon's presence Charlie has made comments about the setup/running of the car that have always proved to be accurate when further investigated. There is little substitute for experience and to be fair I'd say Charlie's knowledge of cars, in particular Subaru's goes far further than your average Dyno Operator - plus one phone call and you have either Simon, Pats or another Knowledgeable chap on the end of the phone for advice!

Wasnt this thread only about a local dyno and checking it out?

Simon, I agree 100% with what Scott says, this thread was never a dig at Charlie, in fact it brought lots of members on to say how happy they are with his services and how they wouldn't change, myself included.

The bog thing is kind of tongue in cheek, it has legendary status as being an ex breeding ground for Saddam Hussein's chemical warfare programme.

Yes, I and many others use Charlie & Yourself and will continue to do so, because we like what we get as a package up there. This RR is just an alternative for people who live further South and East in the region. It has to be worth a look :nod:

:agreed: The only way any of us know if anything is any good or not, is for someone to try it:nod: think Scott knows enough to make a valued judgement too:nod:

Just have a poo and a wee before you leave home then it won't matter about the bloody toilet,I have never put one of my cars on a rolling road but would rather drive a bit more to go to someone who is the best,regardless of the bogs but great that Scott is trying out a new company which is local to him and also closer to me as well as wanna check mine out shortly, so always nice to have options

Paul said he wouldnt map a car there.... Says enough for me

Have to say that the place has had a bit of a spruce up based on todays experience so far!

Maybe someone has passed on the message :wink:

I was going to pop in today, but the M25 was fooked. 2 hours to get to Guildford instead of the usual 1 hour :sadnod:

Hows Angers car doing?

Running map happenning at some point today

Did you have problems getting there today Simon?

At 10.45am It was solid from Just after M23 - Junction 10, and looking chocka block there after too :sadnod:

Yes lucky I left early

Yep it even still smells good in the loo here after mr gimp has visited!!!!

Simon

Ps: I dont normally post from in the loo honest

PMSL :lol:

This is turning into "Bog Gate" :ok:

Sorry guy's didn't look in the loo's.
But they are in the main reception area for the public to use, so they may be a tad cleaner then Charlies ;)

In all seriousness, spent an hour or so with Chris of Chris Langley's with the car on the rollers. A very nice guy who is clearly keen to get the best out of his new rolling road aquisition.

The rollers are similar to that used in the past by Power Engineering and use the coast down to caluclate the transmission loss. I beleive they are MAHA. OK this is older technology to the more recent rollers like Dyno Dynamics or more modern MAHA, but they are well proven.
Having used Power Engineering many times with my old Ford's I'm happy to use them again, especially as they are only 1.5 miles away.

Chris bought this equipment 2nd hand and has spent several months setting it all up. It has primarily been bought for his race car preparation, which is a RallyCross Cossie running Pectel Management and some kind of Westfield/Caterham thing.
He is willing to open it up for RR shoot out days, one-off rolling road dyno runs (book through the office), or offers to operate the rollers if the customer wants to map his own car.

He doesn't appear to have the wealth of experience with mapping modern engine management systems on multiple vehicle platforms, that some venue's have, but having only just set-up the rollers for the reasons above I wouldn't expect him too.

Bottom line is that the rollers appear to work, he's a nice chap trying hard to grow his business, so I for one will support him and use him where possible.

A number of rolling roads (SRR excluded) make the customer uncomfortable and don't listen to what the customer has to say, obviously because they know best....believe me I know as have visited a few over the years. Chris does not do this, he listened to what I had to say and even took some of my suggestions on board.

OK results.......
Car :
STi Hawkeye 2007 PPP
Modifications :
K&N Panel Filter
2.75" CatBack System
2.5" TSL Rear Box
Un-modified Prodrive PPP ECU

338BHP / 326lbft
Several runs where done making slight variations to the applied load of the rollers which made slight variations in result. We settled on the above after lowering the load didn't seem to drop the power figure much further.

I'm prepared to accept that is may be a little high by about 5%. But then again I have heard that the STi Hawkeye OE figures can be a little conservative (316BHP for PPP, without filter or exhaust mods). Either way it's a benchmark for me to improve upon.

To help confirm that the car was being loaded up correctly I logged all the runs on the laptop and Target Boost, AFR, WGDC, Engine Load and Ignition timing all hitting pretty much spot on in accordance with it's respective map settings (Key ones being Target Boost and Engine Load).

I then performed the same out on the real road and the logs where very similar to that captured on the RR. So happy it is all setup correct.

I will put up a graph on 'MY Urban Grey STi' thread once scanned.

Nice write up Scott

Nice one scott.

What did Chris want £ wise Scott. Pm me please. :drive:

as said very good right up scott.

when i started this thread it was only because i had found somewere local
(10 min from my house rather than 2hour) that had a 4 wheel dyno nothing was ment as a dig to charlie and i dont no were that came from!

Good write up scott, even if its 5% out like you say it may well be but as long as you go back there for each run then you can see between the gains correctly.

So over reads just the same as Power engineerings always did

My Standard apart from decatt My99 made 257bhp there ;)

good read scott and would be happy to use them for sure

As Paul and Tone said the fans were small.... What did you think of them Scott ?

Good write up Scott :10:

I reckon it's well worth an RR day. I would come along for a spy at the place and a day out, but I would still stick for now with Charlie, just because as previously stated I like the package I get with Simon & Charlie.

It's a great find though, so happy days :ok:

It's more of a blower then a fan, a different concept to the big caged fan used at SRR. Certainly very noisey and certainly shifts some air.
When the car went on the rollers it was soaking wet as it was raining outside.
As soon as the blower came on the water just flew off quite dramatically, I would say equivelent to doing 80-100mph. The water certainly cleared alot quicker then it does when driving at 60mph.

Again this looked very similar to what PE used to use. The more I think about it the more it seems possible that it is PE's old equipment.
The last time I looked into/read about PE I think they were moving premises and investing in new equipment.

I should of really asked Chris, I will try to next time I see him.

250(ish) seemed to be the figure most UK with decat seemed to hit with a decat and filter, back in the day when 300 was the thing of dreams.

IIRC my old classic recorded 309BHP at PE, with a bit of map tweak with a bit leaning out and a touch more boost (about 0.1bar) it hit 314BHP at SRR the1st time I went up there.

2 Runs, 2 plots at 2 different RR settings

338.2BHP / 326.5lbft
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/Scott.T/RR2.jpg

337.8BHP / 323.8lbft
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/Scott.T/RR1.jpg

As mentioned above I logged a few runs out on the road.
putting these into the road Dyno supplied with the logging application gives very similar results to the above.

Normally road dyno's are very subjective and dependant on the parameters entered i.e you can tweak them to give the figure you want to see.
I initially thought the road dyno was coming in about 30BHP down on the above with the default settings for the STi. 'BUT' found that the 2005-2007 STi has a different final Drive ratio to the earlier 6-Speeds. Once this was entered correctley the values from the Road Dyno are very close to the Rolling Road.

I will post the Road dyno plots later

Nice going Scott, it looks like you have found a bit of a gem there :ok:

Sorry but if you turned up with a mapped car he would have no idea what settings to use, if someone were mapping on such a dyno they can trn it down run the car and then map it and turn it up. Which is why dyno dynamics works far better as you know or any operator knows to run a 4x4 car is shoot44 mode. The only variables are the air and intake temps and barometric pressure, which if far out it is obvious and they are print on the dyno dynamics printout and how the car is strapped.

Maha measure the drive train losses but reproduce the at the wheels figures from some strange calc that makes them meaningless. Yes it records the actual losses however if the brakes are binding the tiniest amount it is recorded and massively skews the results.

The dyno dynamics uses 22% losses iirc and although one could argue this is less accurate it is consistent and the variance between operators less.

They often read higher than dyno dynamics as does power engineerings old rollers which is now owned by ecutek and has a temp controlled sound proofed cell for development work now.

It would be interesting to compare data from there but the fact there is no standard settings worries me. Maybe a cheap way to gain power though. Worzel best be ready to order more numbers for the back of the car ;) :d

Simon

Oi, I resemble that remark :fight: :lol:

Another reason I didn't get Angers turbo in the end, getting fed up with giving Halfrauds all that money for new numbers :wink:

It would be interesting if you were to check it out personally Simon if you were down that way? Because a couple of your comments mean he could benefit from putting in the right direction?

As stated before, I will keep going to Charlie, I love the abuse, red hot pizza, arse killing curries and the bog of doom too much to move away :ok:

I wonder if there is a similar mode for the MAHA.
From this I read that when you map on the rollers you use a different setting to when you do a shoot out, is that correct ? and what are the reasons ?

I may try and get a manual for the MAHA, as you appear to be able to download from their website once registered.

+1. SRR not too far for me either!

Interesting reading this thread.
Always a good debate to be had on rolling roads :-)

I always took my cars to power engineering, reason being they were well renowned in the cossie days. Remember getting a -31 actuator and an Ahmed bajoo chip for my saph. It made 280bhp and I was so impressed, how things have moved on :-)

The prototype is soon to have a RCM decat and then will be booked into SRR with Simon and Charlie.
My classic has not missed a beat since JGM mapped it:-)

Had forgoton just how suffocated a scoob feels with the cats in place . Not pleasant .

[QUOTE Had forgoton just how suffocated a scoob feels with the cats in place . Not pleasant .[/QUOTE]


Tell me about it :cry:

no mate.. there are varying modes you can use on the dyno dynamics and various loads but not in a shoot44 pull etc..

I normally map in shoot44.. I dont like holding turbo cars at a load point as the heat is very quick to build. Do so occasionally to fault find or if in particular there would appear to be something to be gained playing with vvt settings for example but have to be very careful with heat.

what I meant was and I wasnt insinuating they were in st leonards as they dont map but you can alter the before and after by applying different calibration settings on the maha.

very much looking forward to seeing that car ;)

I still think your other classic is the best well looked after original early car I have seen in a long long while

Yeh agree that could easily be done and is probably done at some venues.
I saw the direct result of that when the rollers were set to a load of 70. Power rose to near 350BHP.
It was at that point I said nah!!! somethings not right there, we dropped it to 40, recorded 338, then dropped it a further to 30 and still recorded 337, so settled on that as the decrease had made very little difference.

He was told by the person he bought the RR off that low power 2WD should be on a low setting and higher power cars a higher setting.
The load is used not only to calculate the torque required to spin the rollers but to try and maintain a linear increase in rev/power and prevent the car running through the rev range too fast.

This is my Road Dyno ATW plot taken from a log 15 mins after the RR run.
No tweaking to the parameters have been made other then ensuring the correct gear ratio's, weight and wheel/tyre combination.

The road dyno gives a Power Figure of 243BHP, the Rolling road plot a ATW power figure of approx 255BHP, so not a million mile away.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...t.T/PPPStd.jpg

Charlie is da man
SSR rocks

Jgm roooooocks

This Is an awesome thread.
The only way to be confident is have as large a number of cars do runs at both sites ant compare the deviations . its a simple standards deviation analysis . Bell curve and all that. simples

Scott do you have any pricing info just for a power run? Pm if u want

Cheers mate

How do you know its a high power car or how high powered before you run it?

If 40 load or what ever it was seems correct for your car for example and we all turn up for a powerrun, others with 400+ are going to over read?

I dont think there is the same setting on the maha.

Dastek takes a reading at a set rpm and load and measures the gearing at that point and seems fairly accurate.

Simon

This is such a minefield by the look of things.

I never though of Charlie as some kind of boffin before, but maybe I should!

Charlie = :ugeek: