Is Nurburgring dangerous ???

[Skullfudge]

Since I have known I am going to The Ring I have been looking into it and speaking with many guys who have done laps.

All I keep hearing from 90% of them is how dangerous it is. The last guy I spoke to told me that he drove his Enzo from Peterborough to Dover, on the boat and then the long drive to The Ring. Upon reaching main gate he was told there had been a fatality on track and the place was closed, so he then drove all the way back home.
A couple of weeks ago a biker lost control and was killed instantly. Ten seconds later a biker came ripping through the same bend, hit the bike and was killed instantly.

So I have been doing some research.

Driving into an accident, crashing due to avoiding an accident, losing control, out braking or mechanical failure would sum up what can go wrong and it goes wrong a lot, and I mean A LOT.

Odds would suggest that 50% will be ok with cuts, bruises, dislocated thumbs, a bruised right shoulder or a stiff neck. The Ring calls you in, the carnage is cleared, the ambulance leaves and out you go again.

That still leaves a fair number of guys that have now got proper injuries. The Ring calls you in, the carnage is cleared, the ambulance leaves and out you go again.

The only time The Ring must shut (by law) is when someone on track has been pronounced dead, or it's obvious by the sight of bits missing. This will now involve the German Police and that is why they shut the gates due to a fatality.
To date six hundred and fourteen guys have been killed on track days and this is proved by the six hundred & fourteen police reports that are on record.

[Spooky]

it is scary! But i think so long as your not stupid with it and respect the track and respect the environment that is the ring... you'll be OK!

Clive
I have to say it has a very poor record for sure.
The biggest problem in my opinion is that the bikes should have seperate slots to the cars.
I was shocked at how many bikes just crawl all over you, what you do learn is to pick the right slots when its quieter.
A bmw estate spun in front of me and ended up siadeways across track just around a right hand bend, i missed it but bike behind me hit it big time, not pretty at all.

I honestly believe if you treat it with respect and dont go out thinking your nigel mansell then you will be fine.

The Germans will not close the track all day for a fatality. Two died when we were there . Two bikers had come off one dead on scene the other pronounced dead in hospital. I think they closed the track for as long as it took to clean the oil & stuff up. Then cars are aloud out & when they think its safe for the bike's there out.This may sound callous unfortunately it's expected. As said by Spooky use common sense & a bit of respect. Treat it as a bit of a giggle rather than thinking your the fastest there it's fun. If things look like there getting to involved back off a bit. One of the guys who came with us last year still talks of how much fun he had when at the Ring. He drives a std type r civic. Track knowledge is everything you will be wondering why a mk 2 golf is coming past you {in my case a 67 mini van} the locals know every inch of this place,so when they want to come past let them. The fun of this trip is on the way there, The hotel {worzel palace} is fantastic going on the Ring is just a bonus. So again dont treat it to seriously. Just like the road you can only go quick when you can see it's safe to do so. AMen.

[666subaru]

Originally Posted by Nige

The Germans will not close the track all day for a fatality. Two died when we were there . Two bikers had come off one dead on scene the other pronounced dead in hospital. I think they closed the track for as long as it took to clean the oil & stuff up. Then cars are aloud out & when they think its safe for the bike's there out.This may sound callous unfortunately it's expected. As said by Spooky use common sense & a bit of respect. Treat it as a bit of a giggle rather than thinking your the fastest there it's fun. If things look like there getting to involved back off a bit. One of the guys who came with us last year still talks of how much fun he had when at the Ring. He drives a std type r civic. Track knowledge is everything you will be wondering why a mk 2 golf is coming past you {in my case a 67 mini van} the locals know every inch of this place,so when they want to come past let them. The fun of this trip is on the way there, The hotel {worzel palace} is fantastic going on the Ring is just a bonus. So again dont treat it to seriously. Just like the road you can only go quick when you can see it's safe to do so. AMen.

Well said sir, first time round you will be trying to just get round, so dont be fooled into thinking you will remember every corner until you have been round at least 100 times, the locals all have 1 thing in mind, lap times and they expect you to move out of the way instantly. Learn the curcuit on gran tourismo, as it helps, not much as it is very different doing the real drive.

[Skullfudge]

I know what you are saying mate and agree with all, but if I were honest and I took my P1 to The Ring, I haven't spend a fortune to drive it slow around a race track.
Your approach is the right one Nige, but if any of my mates saw me driving slow around a track they would think I was ill.

Everyone is different and that's cool, it's the track management that is at fault.

No way should a Vauxhall Corsa, my P1, an FFX, bikes of all sizes, vans and what ever else people want to drive be allowed on the same lap. That is inviting a riot on the track.

Originally Posted by Skullfudge

I know what you are saying mate and agree with all, but if I were honest and I took my P1 to The Ring, I haven't spend a fortune to drive it slow around a race track.
Your approach is the right one Nige, but if any of my mates saw me driving slow around a track they would think I was ill.

i can see what your saying. Thing is on most tracks you have 2miles of straights with aprox 8 corners. The Ring's over 13miles of twisty bit's and the only reason you going slower is, your not sure what's around the next bend. I dont take it easy mate like you if i'm on a track i'm off............and i was on my very 1st lap spun a bit laghed it off then tried again. The ring now is very busy so your eighther overtaking or being overtaken. It's all good & one of the only places you can have fun playing with some car's most of us would never be able to afford. Are you coming with us then mate?

[Skullfudge]

[QUOTE=Nige;40709]

Originally Posted by Skullfudge

I know what you are saying mate and agree with all, but if I were honest and I took my P1 to The Ring, I haven't spend a fortune to drive it slow around a race track.
Your approach is the right one Nige, but if any of my mates saw me driving slow around a track they would think I was ill.
i can see what your saying. Thing is on most tracks you have 2miles of straights with aprox 8 corners. The Ring's over 13miles of twisty bit's and the only reason you going slower is, your not sure what's around the next bend. I dont take it easy mate like you if i'm on a track i'm off............and i was on my very 1st lap spun a bit laghed it off then tried again. The ring now is very busy so your eighther overtaking or being overtaken. It's all good & one of the only places you can have fun playing with some car's most of us would never be able to afford. Are you coming with us then mate?

I know exactly where your coming from mate and understand the distance of a single lap. Don't misread me as being a total nutter because I'm not, and I too would never go flat into a bend I never knew well, but you know what I mean mate.
What date are you going? cos if I the date is ok I would love to join you guys.

[QUOTE=Skullfudge;40715]

Originally Posted by Nige

I know exactly where your coming from mate and understand the distance of a single lap. Don't misread me as being a total nutter because I'm not, and I too would never go flat into a bend I never knew well, but you know what I mean mate.
What date are you going? cos if I the date is ok I would love to join you guys.

I know what you mean mate. So your coming then. Mr Fudge you will love it.

[darryl.k]

Its a great experiance, but yes quite dangerous when I went. Audi had a corperate day on testing their big S series. What the aggresive German drivers didnt realise was their brand new Audis with HUGE discs and stop 3 times quicker than I ever could. I ended up almost nudging his rear and running two wheels on the grass for a hundred yards. Then he had the cheek to get out his car at the end and have a moan at me! Oh and yes the bikes fly around, one second... nothing.... then bike!

Think I read if you close the track if its your fault, its £1500 an hour. Plus you have to pay for damage to the ARMCOs and oil / soil on track.

If I wrote my car off, it would be cheaper to leave it there than bring it back. I'd still do it again.

[BIG"E"]

Originally Posted by Skullfudge

I know what you are saying mate and agree with all, but if I were honest and I took my P1 to The Ring, I haven't spend a fortune to drive it slow around a race track.
Your approach is the right one Nige, but if any of my mates saw me driving slow around a track they would think I was ill.

Clive I agree with every thing Nige has said.

If your mates saw you driving round the ring slowly, and they started to take the piss they wouldnt be very good mates, or have a clue what the ring is like.

The ring is somewhere to be respected !!!

When I drove round personally I found it a little scary, its like nowhere else in the world, you cannot appreciate from any game or pictures the gradients and cambers and what its like going up to a blind brow or bend and not having a clue were the road goes. The games can be helpfull if you have the time to play hour after hour to get a rough idea of the road. You need to treat it like a country lane you have never driven before.

Some people go there year after year even leave their cars in Germany and just commute by plane.
Niges mate that he brought his Evo from, has done over 200 trouble free laps,

I would love to have someone to follow for a few laps, rather than driving completely blind. You have to have eyes in the back of your head because there will be someone quicker than you. Watch out for the VW Transporter van.

When we went last year, everyone had a great time, (even the ones who's cars broke down) and thats the reason I am going again.

[Skullfudge]

Would love to mate

Maybe I was misunderstood a bit (nothing like face to face)

As pm I will do my best to attend Big E as I agree that will be a cracking weekend. I will be in touch.

Agree that I know mine doesn't hang about but I also realise there are many quicker. (now that would be fun)

Originally Posted by Skullfudge

Would love to mate

Maybe I was misunderstood a bit (nothing like face to face)

As pm I will do my best to attend Big E as I agree that will be a cracking weekend. I will be in touch.

Agree that I know mine doesn't hang about but I also realise there are many quicker. (now that would be fun)

If you have a little search in the videos or overseas events for last year you will find various photos and vids of us all last year, i personally had one of the best times of my life.
Still room on the ferry's and i belive there are still rooms at Worzels Palace.
I think BIG E hit the nail on the head with treat it as a country lane you have never driven down.
I for one will be taking it easy as i cant afford to wreck the M3.

Good thread by the way

[Chunk]

Emma & myself are off to Eschweiler in a couple of weeks, so tempted to try to get down to the ring as its not far away

Clive

I think everyones comments in this thread all are pretty much spot on.

My take on it is:

The Ring is a totally unique place and no amount of track day experience in this country can truly make you ready for the ring experience. It is without doubt an extremely dangerous place to be, but in truth so is the road outside your front door. It's all about the right place at the right time or the opposite.

The amount of accidents on the ring each year is quite staggering, but also blown out of proportion. Having listened to Mark 83 in the build up to last years trip and then digging around for information, it's not the complete hell that it's made out to be.

Yes there are lots of smashes, but most of the time they are fairly minor due to the twisty nature of the Ring. Bikers are a problem and I agree with the comment that bikes and cars really should not go out together. I don't what the ratio of cars to bikes is on the ring but I feel they should have bike only weekends and car only weekends. The two just simply don't mix. Both have completely different lines, entry and exit speeds into corners. And with 149 corners (from memory) there is always going to be trouble at some point.

I personally want to do 3-4 laps of the Ring this year, 1 will be with Laura in the car and I will use as an ease in lap, with the right indicator permanently on and sticking to the right of the track all the way round. After that I will have a few spirited laps and give it a damned good caning on certain sections. There is no way you can compete with the Ring regulars and locals, they have 100's & 1000's of laps under their belts and know every camber, rise, fall, dip etc. Don't even attempt it, it really isn't worth it.

I think the important thing is to go with your own agenda and stick to it, **** what anyone else may think. If anyone thinks that you have wimped out they are without doubt someone who isn't a friend and more importantly someone who has never been there. I know you'd never drive around there like Miss Daisy and also know that you are a good enough driver to know the limits and stay within them. You will have an absolute scream over there Clive and I'm sure you will put in some very impressive laps, the same as someone like James & Nige will.

The one thing I can 100% guarantee you is you will have a fantastic time down there if you come with us. I kissed goodbye to my car without taking out of the hotel (or Worzels Palace as it's now known ) car park. But I had one of the most fantastic weekends of my life. With a great bunch of blokes in a fantastic country. Virtually everyone agreed last year that the driving they had around the Ring, in the villages and country roads were better than the time they had on the Ring itself, the roads are fantastic. The drive down there, the ferry journey, the whole kit and kaboodle was just fantastic. This year, with a few extra cars and likeminded people, it should be even better.

Mate, it is a fantastic experience. I hope that you want to come down with us. And there is a room already put by just in case.

Roll on May/June

[Chris]

when i was an insurance broker i managed to get some stats from a well insurer that used to insure cars for the Ring - they concluded that minor incidents were few and far between - however when there was an off it was normally a big off.

Another factor of course is the lack of run off on most off the track.

Nutter award goes to a client that took his mobile home round with his kids taking pics of the bikes hooning past in the back.

Originally Posted by Chris

Nutter award goes to a client that took his mobile home round with his kids taking pics of the bikes hooning past in the back.

Priceless

[Steve_PPP]

good post worzel

i'm planning on pretty much the same thing as you - probably 4 laps, first lap just going round on the right side of the circuit with claire if she wants to come. then slowly pick the pace up on each lap.

i'd rather than people thinking i'm slow than have people laughing at the scoob in the barrier as they drive past!

[simonairheadz]

i tested my 2 children on the ring,(xbox) and blindfolded they could tell me every corner and landmark on it lol(bloody xbox's)
allthough i must admit i know to some it may sound silly,but it is a very good way of leaning a track before you go!
try it and test yourself,i found myself laping so much quicker at silverstone,compaired to my previous times having spent the week before counting down the distances to my speed on a screen.

Originally Posted by Steve_PPP

i'm planning on pretty much the same thing as you - probably 4 laps, first lap just going round on the right side of the circuit with claire if she wants to come. then slowly pick the pace up on each lap.

i'd rather than people thinking i'm slow than have people laughing at the scoob in the barrier as they drive past!

Mate, It's the way to go as far as I'm concerened.

I have no intentions of trying to set records, by the same point though, I won't be the slowest round there by a stretch.

It's all about having a great weekend away with your mates, having a bevvie or two and a nice meal, driving the local roads and getting out and about to local destinations.

Happy days.

[Anger]

Im just going to say ive been there and to see it for myself, im gonna go at the pace i feel comfortable with and move out the way for the flyers

Originally Posted by Anger

im gonna go at the pace i feel comfortable with and move out the way for the flyers

Spot on mate.

And also, just spotted on your signature the stormtrooper line! FPMSL

Originally Posted by simonairheadz

i tested my 2 children on the ring,(xbox) and blindfolded they could tell me every corner and landmark on it lol(bloody xbox's)
allthough i must admit i know to some it may sound silly,but it is a very good way of leaning a track before you go!
try it and test yourself,i found myself laping so much quicker at silverstone,compaired to my previous times having spent the week before counting down the distances to my speed on a screen.

I have played GT4 so many times on the PS3 that i can draw the ring blind folded, i have to be honest it helped that you new wether it was a left or right but other than that it was no use.
I had no idea of the speed i needed, no idea of the camber, the actual severity of the corner.
I do know however that it was very exciting and scarry at the same time.

[majorscooby]

One thing i would say about the ring is that the best thing you could possibly have in your car whilst going round is a passenger!!

You would not believe how much it helps with some keeping an eye on that passenger mirror telling you in advance whats coming up quickly, and boy do things appear quickly.

When its your first time out you sort of get tunnel vision, your so busy with you racing line and the thought of being as smooth as poss that you just forget to stay right when theres a 911 steaming up your chuff at warp speed!!

I pushed it to my personal limit and to what i thought my car could handle with what set up i had, managed five laps and i totally enjoyed the whole event.

Even if you go and choose not to go on the ring the roads around the track in the forest are a joy to drive and the sights are awesome, also the company and quality drinking time i had whilst out there was top notch, one weekend away i will never forget.

I was hoping to come away this year and partner up with crowman but doughnut me decided to impregnate the wife and i have a baby due in 6 weeks!! next year though is a defo go go go!!

hope you all enjoy.

Originally Posted by majorscooby

One thing i would say about the ring is that the best thing you could possibly have in your car whilst going round is a passenger!!

You would not believe how much it helps with some keeping an eye on that passenger mirror telling you in advance whats coming up quickly, and boy do things appear quickly.

When its your first time out you sort of get tunnel vision, your so busy with you racing line and the thought of being as smooth as poss that you just forget to stay right when theres a 911 steaming up your chuff at warp speed!!

I pushed it to my personal limit and to what i thought my car could handle with what set up i had, managed five laps and i totally enjoyed the whole event.

Even if you go and choose not to go on the ring the roads around the track in the forest are a joy to drive and the sights are awesome, also the company and quality drinking time i had whilst out there was top notch, one weekend away i will never forget.

I was hoping to come away this year and partner up with crowman but doughnut me decided to impregnate the wife and i have a baby due in 6 weeks!! next year though is a defo go go go!!

hope you all enjoy.

Rich
i am gutted you cant be my co pilot, fully understand though mate.
Hope you and Becks are well.

Might get to see you one day

[majorscooby]

Originally Posted by Crowman

Rich
i am gutted you cant be my co pilot, fully understand though mate.
Hope you and Becks are well.

Might get to see you one day

Mate I'm not to sure when the next meet is but i MUST get to it to catch up, I keep on saying to myself I must bell martyn to see how he is but like youself I'm so so busy with work and the phone is permantley stuck to my ear with people from the airport nagging, poxy project!! See you soon !!!!

Originally Posted by Chunk

Emma & myself are off to Eschweiler in a couple of weeks, so tempted to try to get down to the ring as its not far away

Get down there mate, you'll love it