My engine problem in the P1

[Skullfudge]

As some of you may know I ran 2 laps at Bruntingthorpe last Saturday and at the end of lap two the engine tone suggested it was firing on three cylinders.
Car was retired to the pits and Daz kindly spent a large chunk of the day testing the plugs, leads, etc to see if it was something minor that could be sorted in the pits.



The Nr 2 injector had failed causing damage to a valve and to the piston through running lean. A compression test revealed that the cylinder had a 90% leakage.
Olly mentioned that Meths hasn't helped and to be honest the car was running fine until I put a 20% mix in at Bruntingthorpe at the weekend for the first time in a while.


It's common knowledge that many are waiting (or would like to hear) that an RCM engine as blown to bits but this damage has been caused from the injector failure as mentioned. The engine has obviously been subject to wear just like any other motor but other than a Map Sensor failing and an issue with contaminated Meths it's been faultless.

If I were honest I have been amazed something like this has not happened before now. I'm not one of the many that have big power just to say (I'm running 500 at the wheels), the car has been used hard and many times and many will tell you.
I have often found myself in competitions whereby the poor ol' P1 is surrounded by monster looking cars stripped out and trailered to the event and she has performed right up there with them and often beaten many of them in sprints, tracking and events like the MLR 30-130 where the old girl was in 1st place at lunch time although I came 11th by the close of the day (2009).

42.000 miles of which over 20,000 was on Meths. Many track days / sprints / 2 MLR 30-130's / 30+ runs at the Pod / over to The Ring & back including 3 fierce laps / 100;s of blasts with passengers including launches and plenty more I cant be bothered to list, so the build has been superb.

Not sure if the P1 will be rebuilt to its current spec or if 2.1 with the GT35 b/w will be addressed.
Funding cars like this isn't cheap and with P2 being an ongoing affair I will need sit down with O & M and come to a decision.

Had one of my vans blow to bits last night as well, so that will also need replacing.
That's another 10 - 15 fooking K by the time I have it written and
had the back racked out like we do to enable all equipment to fit in' I always do this myself but always shocked at how much it costs. :vcrying::vcrying:

At this rate I'm expecting a British Airways 767 to land on my house next week. :001_rolleyes:

[scooby doo]

Im really sorry to hear this Clive, and injector isn't something you can say that's on its way out, and like you said wasn't down the type of build or builders just,,well one of those things i guess, 40,000miles at 500bhp is impressive. is there no chance of just replacing the pistons and valves etc and getting it back together or is the block dead?

Im sure you will build the monster back up.

Mate, that's really sad to hear.

It makes me sick that some people out there would even entertain the idea of hoping an RCM engine will blow up. What is the world coming to when people think that way? That's just narrow mindedness and sheer envy taken to a whole new level. What a retarded point of view to hold

Having seen the car performing and knowing what it's capable of, it will be sadly missed in it's current format. It has done you and RCM very proud indeed. However, the thought of your P1 coming back bigger, stronger and potentially more powerful is something to truly look forward to.

That is a proper **** about the van having a crap and burying itself too mate, like you say, typical bloody timing

Finally........One question, just in case I pop round.........





..... your house isn't really on the flight line is it mate........

Gutted for you clive, not much luck lately mate.
Remind me not to eat same as you friday

What a testemant to your engine though, thats loads of miles for a high power scoob which has been well and truly driven

I was honoured enough to drive it, slowly i might add, as it was wet and i was crapping it

[53WRX]

......

That's a small amount of bad luck in a hard 40k miles mate. Well done RCM & roll on the next build.

[Lucky]

Really sorry to hear it clive, and also with the van aswell. It never rains...... Keep your chin up mate.

Steve

[Anger]

Sorry to hear Clive

But like you say, there arn't many engines at 500bhp+ that have taken the beating yours has

Look forward to seeing it bigger and better in the near future


James

[Skullfudge]

Thanks chaps.

Steve, plenty of that goes on mate when you are in certain circles of the Scooby world as James can probably vouch.
When your involved with (what many class as the best in the game) it becomes worse. You would not believe half the ****e I've heard over time. Another thing that separate RCM from everyone else is that they stay out of these things we are in, forums.
Everything is read but nothing is posted.



Looks like the P1 may end up 2.1 with the new GT35 billet wheel turbo which will be knocking out somewhere near 650 bhp. That's going to be a pain in the arse

[Moley_WRX]

That engine certainly got a lot of abuse, so it's a credit to RCM that it's lasted so long, and that the failure wasn't down the engine itself.

Looking forward to seeing how the new engine performs.

[Frenchie]

Sorry to hear this Clive,your certainly not getting the roll of the dice at the moment.

[BIG"E"]

Really sorry to hear about your engine matey,

It has certainly stood up well to some hard usage,


Why is it that when something goes wrong,

there is always something else to give you an extra kick in the nuts.

Its not easy in these hard times chin up mate.

[Skullfudge]

Thanks chaps

LMAO at the flight path thing Steve !......... only just seen that bit

The words "chin up" mean a lot sometimes.

[Bolesroor]

Really sorry to read about your car Clive.
Although I`m a novice when it comes to Scooby ownership I`ve really enjoyed reading your post`s especially about P1 and P2. As people have said "Keep going matey" I`m sure you will get it all sorted!

[Hongkongfooi]

I take it its just a re hone of the block and new pistons and the heads will be ok?

sorry to hear this....your car will still be the best on here

[ralliart didz]

sorry clive 2 here about your p1,you have had a couple of **** weeks m8.
but think of the p1 as the six million man,you can rebuild it,make it stronger and faster.

[666subaru]

Hope you get things sorted very soon, your car is a work of art and has had a lot of caring so it will be good to see it back bigger, badder and stronger, good luck with everything Clive.

[Krissyb]

sorry to hear that mate, defo a credit to RCM plus it's such a shame that an injector failure caused eventual engine failure otherwise she'll still be going strong.

Clive, I know there can be some bitchiness in "scoobyville" some times, but it saddens me to hear how bad it can be. What is the world coming to?

People like yourself, James, Nige and a few others are the ones that push the boundaries of what's achievable with our beloved cars, that then opens the way for us everyday Joes to follow suit and mod our cars, all be it to a different kind of level.

Hopefully people like you will continue doing what you do, as this gives people like us the inspiration to get the best out of our cars.

Steve

Originally Posted by worzel

Clive, I know there can be some bitchiness in "scoobyville" some times, but it saddens me to hear how bad it can be. What is the world coming to?

People like yourself, James, Nige and a few others are the ones that push the boundaries of what's achievable with our beloved cars, that then opens the way for us everyday Joes to follow suit and mod our cars, all be it to a different kind of level.

Hopefully people like you will continue doing what you do, as this gives people like us the inspiration to get the best out of our cars.

Steve

Ah men!

[Skullfudge]

Cheers Steve.

Thanks gents.

[tbtstt]

Gutted to read this. I've always admired your car for having both big power and daily-drive reliability, so this is a massive shame.

Surprised that anyone would actually want to see someones pride and joy blow up, but therein lies the problem with the internet: any idiot is allowed to use it.

The only positive note is hearing that your P1 may be returning with more power!

[RobEvo5]

Gutted for you, but nice to see you taking a phylosophical approach to it.... **** happens sometimes, but good to see you are just dusting yourself off and cracking on.

40K miles driven very hard is more like 200K driven as a normal road car. Major credit I say to those involved with it. And if it was just an injector in the end, even more so....

Playing at this level comes at cost, but its all relevant and the good thing about scoobs is even at this level is they are relatively cheap to play with.

[Scott.T]

Sorry to hear the news clive.
So does meth damage the injectors then after a lot of use?

I know what u mean about bitches, espesh those run by 'grumpy old men's and the old open source vs ecutek debate !!!

[jura11]

Sorry to hear news Clive



Jura

[Skullfudge]

Thanks Jura


Silver:
We are unsure about the Methanol contribution although things are pointing to the Meths causing the problem.
The tank has been drained and the fuel will be tested for impurities, %, gelling, contaminants and separation issues.

I have a strong feeling that Meths caused the problem.
I have spent much time in talks with the head of fuel development at Trinity Fuel Research before when Meths caused a problem and by what he informed me it's pointing to the gelling effect that blocked one of the injectors causing the cylinder to run lean resulting in valve damage.

A leakage test has proved the the cylinder in question show 90%.

What i do know is that the Meths - V Power % was correct at 20% and that I did activate the Map 2 switch, which is the map for Meths.




Will keep you updated.

[Granby]

Sh*t news Clive and i'm really sorry to hear this, but as you've said you have driven the car as it should be driven and if it wasn't for the injector failure i'm sure it would of gone on for a lot longer, maybe tuners and the like need to rethink the use of methanol as its billed as a cheap power gain but if it leads to failure of another component then maybe its not?

[Skullfudge]

Cheers Gramps

If the Meths was the problem I wont be using it anymore.

Okay. it's a cheap power gain compared to the likes of VP Import at £40 odd quid a gallon but no company has really conducted full long term testing with Meths.

NOS will probably be the way forward. Race fuels are okay for racing but for the road would be crazy.

Darren (P2 builder) collected the fuel from The Pod and The Gobstopper used £ 820.00's worth of VP Import in 3 hours last Saturday.

[Tyler]

Gutted for you clive, prob my most favorite car in on the forum (apart from the 22b ofcourse) no offence... It is you and your car that inspired me... Not that my car is not a spec compared to yours....

Hope you sort something out though buddy...

Just a quick question Clive.

Myself and Nige have just been having a good old chat on the blower (59 minutes on Niges bill ), obviously we got round to talking about your misfortunes.

Since the build, have you ever changed the injectors? It's just you made a comment about "gelling" in one of your earlier posts, we wondered if that gelling might have been a cause?

If that is the case, would it be worth while changing the injectors periodically to alleviate this issue? That way you could still run 20% meth (in theory)

[Skullfudge]

Regarding the injectors RCM will conduct "flow rate checks".

The gelling is only a theory at the moment as I haven't spoke to Matt yet although we have been emailing each other as I gave him a report of the minutes leading up to the problem.
In 6th at 170 ish the engine was holding back slightly for around 3 seconds so I backed off. That 3 seconds was what caused the problem and we are all on the case finding out what happened in that short time.
Fuel starvation would have been the primary cause of valve scorching.

If the injector did fail all four will be replaced.

A lot of the engine is very similar to The GS as Matt designed my engine as a street version of their car. Other than the Gas O RIng system, the turbo and fuel related parts much is similar or the same.
My engine has been built to cope with 10.000 rpm all day long so we are well within the safety margin running at 8200 regarding the actual build.

It will be interesting to see if it was a failure on an injector and the reasons for it.

I suppose that's one of the issues with a highly tuned car like yours, you can run high horsepower and not skip a beat for such a long time, the internals coping more than admirably with what they are going through. Then out of the blue something like this can happen. The only good thing I can say is as you well know, you have got the best people possible on the case by way of RCM. Daft as it might sound and it's probably not much comfort for you, but they may even learn something from it, because it is so similar to the GS.

We are all feeling for you mate

[Skullfudge]

Yep that's right Steve. Matt Clark logs everything when issues arise with one of his engines and learns from the issue.

Plugs were ok, leads were ok so it's pointing to fuel or injector problems.

Will keep you updated matey.

Thanks mate

Here's a little vid taken on the phone from our group love day, with you launching.

When it goes silent in spots, it's because your anti-lag was too loud for the mic

When i think about it mate my engine failure was down to a small nutt.

Originally Posted by Nige

When i think about it mate my engine failure was down to a small nutt.

What, the one behind the wheel?

[Skullfudge]

LOL glad your camera was ok.
At the P1 10th Anni' my anti lag destroyed 4 mobile phones and 2 camcorders (all P1 members)

It fooked the microphones on all of them and they never worked again.

[scoobyslayer]

Just read this Clive, hope its not too badly damaged

Bad things always seem to happen in multiples.

[scoobyslayer]

Originally Posted by worzel

What, the one behind the wheel?

I concur

[Mike L]

Sorry to here this clive

I know what you mean about some people !!! when my 750 engine let go there were two inpartular that were right W****** They are just jelous I think

[Jolly Green Monster]

Sorry to read for the failure Clive.

Pretty normal for a p1 to need a rebuild every 40k or so

Onwards bigger and better.

Simon

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by Skullfudge

At the P1 10th Anni' my anti lag destroyed 4 mobile phones and 2 camcorders (all P1 members)

It fooked the microphones on all of them and they never worked again.

I can also confirm that it gave severe tinnitus to anyone who crouched down too close behind it...

[C. J.]

Sad but happens
Can you not stick the P2 engine in for now and run it in

Originally Posted by tbtstt

I can also confirm that it gave severe tinnitus to anyone who crouched down too close behind it...

I was suffering from 3rd degree burns from the flames spitting out of the back

[Steve_PPP]

Sorry to hear this Clive, but as the others have said, its done you proud.

I remember the SES trackday at Brands a couple of years ago, you were flying past me on the straight like i was in reverse!

Look forward to seeing it back on the road and better than ever

[Skullfudge]

Thanks Steve


Worzel, a good one was when I first tried my launch control on my drive.

I later found out that next doors dog never left it's kennel for FOUR full days.

Originally Posted by Skullfudge

Thanks Steve


Worzel, a good one was when I first tried my launch control on my drive.

I later found out that next doors dog never left it's kennel for FOUR full days.

FPMSL

Bless poor old rover

[paulT25]

Hi Clive as you have seen I am new on here, However, I have seen your name around on other forums.
I am so sorry to hear of your problems , even though I am not running that sort of power , I do feel for you. Last year my T25 siezed , and had a full rebuild , less crank and rods.
I would have loved to been lucky enough to have let Olly and co, do their magic on my motor. Maybe next time.?

I am aware that even though mine is newly rebuilt, I could have issues at anytime, its one of those things with High power cars.
I am also running 20% Meth so will be keeping a close watch on the outcome of your injectors.
I am immpressed with RCM, from the posts . To have any issues logged and rectified is top quality. Maybe more companies should take note!

Correct me if I am wrong , were you at the Brighton meet? and if so what car was you driving.?

All best Paul.

[SpecB]

Sorry to hear that it's finally done what any sensible engine would do given the abuse you give it!

I for one would be more than happy if my build gave me the same service yours has - mines only done about 3k miles and turns out to have a valve stem oil leak so will be having the heads looked at later this year. The build in your car has performed admirably and given the power its running and the way it's been driven has been truly amazing and it just goes to show that a small failure of a simple part can easily cause major issues when you are pushing the envelope!

[Scott.T]

Bring on the