To map or not map

[Type-r-russ]

Right guys im joining the 2016 ses ring trip

I have everthing i need to map my wrx bug... ie
Vf35 fully rebuit with billet wheel and ported housing
Pinks, sti Tmic, tgv delete ect..

So my question is

Do i fit and map for the ring pushing the limit of the box ect

Or do i leave it at the 279bhp it is now ?

[Rdlangy1]

Personally I would leave it till after the ring - you don't want something going pop out there.

Then when your back, have it all fitted and sorted - and enjoy it and then come next year and try and better your time

[NL03Scooby]

The last thing you want to do is have your gearbox/clutch give up on you in Germany because you have forced it beyond it limits. Are you looking to run more power then you currently have through a 5 speed box and clutch?

[Steve_PPP]

Yeah, I agree with Ryan. The power you have now is more than enough to enjoy the Ring, its more of a handling circuit than a power circuit. Try and learn the track with the power you have now then take your time with the mods/mapping over the summer and come back next year

I only had 250bhp for the first 4 years I went, and 280bhp for the last couple of years. Can still get round under 9 minutes so I wouldn't worry about rushing the job now. Check the car over for perished hoses, leaks etc that might cause a problem.

What brakes are you running on your bug wrx? If you're on the Subaru 4 pots still, definitely stick at your current power.

[Rdlangy1]

Originally Posted by Steve_PPP

What brakes are you running on your bug wrx? If you're on the Subaru 4 pots still, definitely stick at your current power.

Sound advise

[Type-r-russ]

Hi, iv already up rated the clutch to a pink box and light flywheel, i now have front and rear brembos because i was intending to map in the next couple of weeks...but as you guys say i also think its best to wait untill after the ring trip...

[Type-r-russ]

Ill be fitting the brembos as soon as i can find some 18s to clear them

[Scott.T]

The gearbox in the type R will be fine. It's the toughest of the lot in a classic.
I'm still running a UK box and have been running 300-335BHP for over 10 years with 3 trips to the ring and 2 outing at Goodwood.

Personally I wouldn't bother with the sleeve bearing VF35, as the roller bearing VF28/29 you have is just as capable and spools well.

I assume your fitting newage pinks on adaptor rails ?

[Type-r-russ]

Hi scott i dont have the type r any more... wish i did
Iv got a bug wrx now

[Type-r-russ]

Would be nice to map it for the ring to say 330bhp ?
But i dont want to stress it.. especially while in germany ?

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by Type-r-russ

Hi scott i dont have the type r any more... wish i did
Iv got a bug wrx now

Oh!!! Ignore all I said then......and go buy a real scooby

[Type-r-russ]

I wont be staying with that setup its only for a year as daft as it sounds.. im building a 2.1 currently and will do a 6 speed with that at the same time

[Type-r-russ]

Originally Posted by Scott.T

Oh!!! Ignore all I said then......and go buy a real scooby

Lol..... 3 type r's and a ra Sti To a bug wrx... seem to heading in the wrong direction lol

[Granby]

Originally Posted by Type-r-russ

Would be nice to map it for the ring to say 330bhp ?
But i dont want to stress it.. especially while in germany ?

My old newage wagon was up to 330bhp & 325ft lbs with the same mods you have ready and i never had a problem with it or the gearbox in that state of tune

[Steve_PPP]

The newage wrx gearbox will be fine at VF35 power levels assuming its in good health now.

If you're fitting rear brembos I assume you're aware of the handbrake issues you'll have to resolve? I went with the larger shoes as its the easiest fix and its alright on the road, but when they're hot (coming off track) i have no handbrake at all.

Originally Posted by Scott.T

and go buy a real scooby

So many rude words, so little time

[Type-r-russ]

Originally Posted by Steve_PPP

The newage wrx gearbox will be fine at VF35 power levels assuming its in good health now.

If you're fitting rear brembos I assume you're aware of the handbrake issues you'll have to resolve? I went with the larger shoes as its the easiest fix and its alright on the road, but when they're hot (coming off track) i have no handbrake at all.






So many rude words, so little time

Yes had the vf35 Rebuilt with a bilet wheel and ported housing...
And yes iv decided to go with bigger shoes conversion as well, got them from godsoeed

Well dony Think ill be doing laps in 9mins like you
But ok somthing for me to aware of

Just realised you meant the gearbox.. yes its in good health

[555_Si]

ran my 140,000 mile wrx bug to nurburg no issues and several track days after with vf43 turbo, pinks, 5 speed box, standard clutch. ran brembos with sti discs and pf z rated pads.

no issues at all. i would go for it. tell the mapper you are using it on track, they will probably map it a bit richer to protect the engine and not push the map quite so hard. mine was plenty quick enough.

[Type-r-russ]

Originally Posted by 555_Si

ran my 140,000 mile wrx bug to nurburg no issues and several track days after with vf43 turbo, pinks, 5 speed box, standard clutch. ran brembos with sti discs and pf z rated pads.

no issues at all. i would go for it. tell the mapper you are using it on track, they will probably map it a bit richer to protect the engine and not push the map quite so hard. mine was plenty quick enough.

I have an uprated pink box clutch so will be no give and all strain on the box.. but the box is in good shape so could be nice to have it done for the trip

[scotty]

I would go with a safe 300-320 if it was me thats funny as im getting mine mapped to the max of my vf23 next month .

[Banstead Stig]

Personally, if I knew I was going back, I'd use it as an opportunity to conduct a 'control' test. Then get the mods done and see the improvement.

However, I can also imagine the temptation to update now and get the maximum out of this trip is hard to resist.

[Scott.T]

Lol...It makes me laugh how people expect the power under the hood to impact your experience on the ring trip.
250 or 500 will have the same impact unless you have done 50+ laps.

All the talk of 'learning' the track on a forum that goes once a year is somewhat ambitious to say the least.
Even those that have been on every SES trip have elements of the track that are 'sort of' but not quite known such that they can fully commit.

What I'm trying to say is 280bhp or 330bhp will not make your trip any better or worse. There are a good few month till the big event, so I would say do it now to be sure all is well and if done right you'll be fine, as long as you keep it on the black stuff.

All the cars on all the SES trip that have died have done so on the way down or on the way back and everyone of them was due to too long sustained at high speed (120+). Scoobs were never designed to be barnstormer's

[alfa male]

Originally Posted by Scott.T

Lol...It makes me laugh how people expect the power under the hood to impact your experience on the ring trip.
250 or 500 will have the same impact unless you have done 50+ laps.

Its somewhat gutting when you can't keep up with something with less than half the power!

[Banstead Stig]

Originally Posted by Scott.T

Lol...It makes me laugh how people expect the power under the hood to impact your experience on the ring trip.

That wasn't the point I was making at all (if your comment was aimed at me).

If I was going to upgrade my car, I think it'd be ideal to see what it was like before and after. Driving that track, there and back, seems like a decent comparison.

This works mostly because you won't have learned the track and your skills are unlikely to have improved significantly, so will really show the difference in the car.

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by Banstead Stig

That wasn't the point I was making at all (if your comment was aimed at me).

If I was going to upgrade my car, I think it'd be ideal to see what it was like before and after. Driving that track, there and back, seems like a decent comparison.

This works mostly because you won't have learned the track and your skills are unlikely to have improved significantly, so will really show the difference in the car.

It wasn't aimed at you. It's just we see the same chat on here every year regarding 'learning' the track and upping the power for the trip.

Personally I'd rather kick the arse out a rental clio or swift for a few hundred quid then try and add 60hp to my own car for the trip.

[Banstead Stig]

I've often thought a rental car would be the way to go as I'd be **** scared of damaging my car.

My FSTi is my commuter and family wagon, so it'll never see the intimacies of a track unless that changed.

The attraction of taking a car you know well is you probably feel more secure with its familiarity... also, don't the rentals have a huge deposit/excess if you **** up?

[Type-r-russ]

Im not trying to add more power for the trip... i was intending to fit and map anyway... just wanted peoples opinions on weather i should do before or after.. because of the power pushing the car more to its limit. I dont intend on doing much track time anyway just want to experience it all and have some fun

[Type-r-russ]

Iv decided to fit the parts and map it.. and just make sure all is running well ready for the trip
Thanks for all the help and advise

[555_Si]

i disagree with Scott's statement, we all need more power for the trip...........to keep up with Ian!

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by 555_Si

i disagree with Scott's statement, we all need more power for the trip...........to keep up with Ian!

I'm working on Ian's car at the weekend. I'm sure something can be arranged for a small club contribution from all the ringers. Just let know where you want the speed limiter set

[Dan881]

Get all the bits fitted and mapped so I can have the sports cat and get mine mapped haha

[Type-r-russ]

Originally Posted by Dan881

Get all the bits fitted and mapped so I can have the sports cat and get mine mapped haha

Haha.... i think you need to come to the ring aswell

[555_Si]

Originally Posted by Scott.T

I'm working on Ian's car at the weekend. I'm sure something can be arranged for a small club contribution from all the ringers. Just let know where you want the speed limiter set

2000 rpm rev limit will do. oh and bleed some air into the brakes, i don't want a repeat of the.. ooh look there's the exit to the Shell petrol station we should have taken! arrgrhhh i don't ever want to be that close to Ian's rear end ever again.

[Ginola]

Originally Posted by Scott.T

I'm working on Ian's car at the weekend. I'm sure something can be arranged for a small club contribution from all the ringers. Just let know where you want the speed limiter set

Haha

10 degrees of timing pulled globally for "safety" ��


Most important thing for a fun ring trip above everything on the car front is nice tyres/brakes rest isn't important!

[Dan881]

Originally Posted by Type-r-russ

Haha.... i think you need to come to the ring aswell

Would love too go but got no chance this year.... maybe next year tho

[Steve_PPP]

Originally Posted by Scott.T

250 or 500 will have the same impact unless you have done 50+ laps.

All the talk of 'learning' the track on a forum that goes once a year is somewhat ambitious to say the least.

I pretty much agree with this. I've done 25-30 laps over the last 6 trips (I can't remember exactly) but I don't feel I've learnt the circuit any more over the last couple of years. Its fairly easy to learn it enough to drive at 70-80% round there, but to drive at 90-95% takes a lot more time. And I don't think its really possible when you're only going once a year doing only half a dozen laps. Anything you learn on one trip needs to be relearnt the following year as car and track conditions change. And then there's good laps being ruined by traffic....

Originally Posted by Banstead Stig

The attraction of taking a car you know well is you probably feel more secure with its familiarity... also, don't the rentals have a huge deposit/excess if you **** up?

Yes, there are excesses on the rentals, which are proportionate to the car's value. But the benefits are that they're insured in Germany, so have full 3rd party liability in the event that you injure someone (think biker...) in an accident. That's the grey area for us driving our UK-insured cars.

Originally Posted by 555_Si

arrgrhhh i don't ever want to be that close to Ian's rear end ever again.

We've all seen enough of Ian's rear end, his arse comes out as soon as the camera does