No spark

Greig · #1 11-09-2010, 11:29 PM

Almost finnished refitting my engine went to turn it over wuickly
to see if it would start but there is no spark from the coilpack
snything obvious that been left off etc? Cheers

Scott.T · #2 12-09-2010, 08:11 AM

i assume cam and crank sensors are fitted ?

Greig · #3 12-09-2010, 01:25 PM

Yep all. Plugged in, thinking maybe an earth off? Or ecu? Or fuse gone?

#4 12-09-2010, 02:03 PM

I would bet it's a fuse mate. If you don't sort it, I can take a look on Tuesday or Friday.
Electronics to componant level was my game for years.straight forward to trace the 12V circuit to ECU etc.
Let me know mate

Scott.T · #5 12-09-2010, 02:06 PM

check the voltage to the coil from the ecu. I'll dig out the pin out if needed.

Greig · #6 12-09-2010, 05:23 PM

Got 12v on one of the 4 cables black one but when you turn it over nouthing
comes from the coil pack, is one live right?
Knackered coil pack? Cheers

Greig · #7 12-09-2010, 05:23 PM

All fuses ok aswell

Greig · #8 12-09-2010, 11:51 PM

Thanks for the offer martyn, I think something wierds going on

Have tried two ecus checked all plugs and continuaty of cables
still no spark?

Does anyone know who would be able to fix this for me?
Was thinking bout getting another coil pack but unsure as the four pin plug only has one live cable witch Is live all the time,
tried turning over with the test meter on the plug and nouthing happens

help please

Anger · #9 13-09-2010, 07:34 AM

best thing tgo do is get the same year car there and try swapping the bits you think are giving the problems... Had to do this a few times with my RA

Legacydan · #10 13-09-2010, 08:12 AM

Check your camshaft sensor plug & make sure you haven't plugged it onto an injector!!! They are the same plugs.

Scott.T · #11 13-09-2010, 08:20 AM

The ECU has 2 outputs for ignition. One for cylinders 1 & 2 and one for 3 & 4 as it runs a wasted spark system i.e 1 and 2 fire at the same time but only 1 ignites due to the other being at the wrong end of the stroke.

I also expect that the ECU switches the negative side of the coil.

It may be a live feed to the coil, a ground to the coil and the 2 signals which go back to the ECU. Buzz the other signals at the coil, if one is connected to earth then pretty sure the other 2 are the ECU outputs.

C. J. · #12 13-09-2010, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legacydan

Check your camshaft sensor plug & make sure you haven't plugged it onto an injector!!! They are the same plugs.

seen that before , an easy mistake to do

Scott.T · #13 13-09-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C. J.

seen that before , an easy mistake to do

LOL, nice one...

Greig · #14 13-09-2010, 01:28 PM

Camshaft sensor was wrong have put it right now but still no spark!
Shall I try getting a couple of sensors from saj
and try that or any other ideas? Thanks

Scott.T · #15 13-09-2010, 01:35 PM

It may of damaged your sensor.
If the injector connector was receiveing a pulse from the ECU, it may of shuffed 12V into the Cam Sensor.
The Cam sensor is a ferrite that will send a small signal back to the ECU, rather then recieve 12V up it's jacksie.....

C. J. · #16 13-09-2010, 01:53 PM

Have some sensors so dont go and buy one

Greig · #17 13-09-2010, 07:21 PM

Have replaced both sensors, and swiped the plug over
re checked all fuses still no joy

Scott.T · #18 13-09-2010, 08:24 PM

is the car fitted with an immobiliser ?

2-jaffacake-tone · #19 13-09-2010, 08:34 PM

could fitting the cam sensor/injector the wrong way damage the ecu?

Greig · #20 13-09-2010, 08:34 PM

Yep but I think it's ok because when I turn it off the fuel pump fires up?

Who can I pay to come and look at this?
Cheers

Greig · #21 13-09-2010, 08:36 PM

Have tried two ecus in it? Hope they're ok
maybe I'll try getting a coil pack from saj tomorrow?

Legacydan · #22 14-09-2010, 07:56 AM

Was your engine built by someone or a secondhand unit? Has the crankshaft pick up pulley been replaced? There are 2 or 3 different pulleys with the crank sensor pick ups in different places.

Greig · #23 14-09-2010, 08:31 AM

It's a lateral closed deck 2.1 with sti 5 heads
I've put a lightweight crank pulley on could it be that?

2-jaffacake-tone · #24 14-09-2010, 10:07 AM

no the outer pully wont make any diffrence, dan is talking about the crankshaft sprocket.

have you checked the main engine wireing harness plugs are pushed right in? have you checked to see if you have a injector pulse, might be worth pluging a code reader in an seeing if its picked up any stored faults.

If it was running before the build an now it dosent, its unlikely to be a sensor/coilpack, more like somthink isnt conected right/or a damaged component imo.

Greig · #25 15-09-2010, 01:15 PM

Had the computer plugged in today
cannot read the engine management- no power to the ecu
have checked all fuses but does anyone know what one it is and is it under the bonnet or in the car?
Thinking prob an earth fault, where is theecu grounded?
Does it haveto be bolted to the floor to work?
Cheers

Scott.T · #26 15-09-2010, 01:30 PM

No, doesn't have to be bolted.
If it is the Apexi this doesn't even provide the facility to bolt to the floor.

See pin-out below. Main Power is Connector B136 Pin 8 and 9 and B136 Pin 25 from Ignition switch.

Be careful as not sure if diagram is a view of the ECU connector or the attached cable connector (i.e mirror image)
Match the keyway/pips positions on your connector to the diagram below.

Piccies from JGM site, as can't access mine from the office.

Greig · #27 15-09-2010, 10:35 PM

Thanks for all your help, getting somewhere now,
appears no power to the ecu. Yellow and blue wires?
Where do they run to and could it be anything inside the car running to the back as I've fitted a roll cage since it was last working?
Have taken the interiour out again and can't see any damage or loose connections?
Thanks again

Scott.T · #28 15-09-2010, 10:55 PM

i would imagine they go to the fuse box, maybe via the big block connector down by the battery.
i might have a loom diagram somewhere. Might not be for a my99 but should give a clue.

Jolly Green Monster · #29 15-09-2010, 11:10 PM

Is the ground strap on the back of the inlet manifold on and bolted to the manifold / good ground? this is the ground to the ecu.

Being a 99 what are you trying to communicate to it with? as not much will com with it, and you said pump was priming to my guess is it has power.

Other alternative is as Dan has suggested what Crank and Cam wheels have you used, are they from original engine?

Have you timed Crank wheel to the timing mark and not the arrow... also very easy mistake, seen it timed to arrow at 3oclock in this picture many many times.

Simon

Greig · #30 15-09-2010, 11:31 PM

So is the arrow supposed to be at the top,
think might have done it to 3 oclock so will look tomorrow,
thanks

Jolly Green Monster · #31 15-09-2010, 11:55 PM

no the arrow you ignore..

the timing mark on the back of the pulley needs to be aligned to TDC mark or the mark on the cambelt.

if you line it up with the arrow you get no spark as the cam and crank triggers never sync.

Simon

Scott.T · #32 16-09-2010, 08:43 AM

Greig,
Before you start pulling things apart again to check timing, you mentioned the ECU has no power.
Where did you measure this from ?

agree with Simon, if you have the apexi PFC you will not get anything from the diag port. but you mentioned you tried several ECU so assume one was an OE one, so you should get something (although MY99 are on the verge of the introduction of OBDII diagnostics and I have heard conflicting reports as to whether they work).

The Diagnostic Tool ECU Explorer should connect to the OE ECU though if you have an OBD cable for youy lappy http://code.google.com/p/ecuexplorer...25.exe&can=2&q=

Jolly Green Monster · #33 16-09-2010, 08:53 AM

if powerfc then it will be easy to see if ecuy has power.. as the hand commander will power or not.

Also on the 99 on the drivers side there is a plug near the air filter, if that is not connected fully the cam and crank triggers won't be seen by the ecu.

Also worth disconnecting and cleaning all the engine wiring looms like ones by the battery and one on the bell housing as it could be dirt in them

Greig · #34 16-09-2010, 10:58 AM

The comander does ight up so must be getting power then,
have checked the lugs by the battery for continuaty between the plug and the plugs going to various points on the engine,

Simon is the plug your talking about by the maf plug as only
seen the maf and 1 other plug there?

Thanks for all the help everyone

Jolly Green Monster · #35 16-09-2010, 03:16 PM

yes near maf plug..

if you monitor rpm on the commander do they show rpm when cranking?

Greig · #36 16-09-2010, 07:19 PM

Had it apart today, timing is correct, all wheels are from the car

Apexi shows 3-4 hundred rmp when cranked and also shows boost.

Have checkedcthe plugs again, any more ideas?
Thanks

Hongkongfooi · #37 16-09-2010, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greig

Had it apart today, timing is correct, all wheels are from the car

Apexi shows 3-4 hundred rmp when cranked and also shows boost.

Have checkedcthe plugs again, any more ideas?
Thanks

get an expert in

lol

Jolly Green Monster · #38 16-09-2010, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greig

Had it apart today, timing is correct, all wheels are from the car

Apexi shows 3-4 hundred rmp when cranked and also shows boost.

Have checkedcthe plugs again, any more ideas?
Thanks

So ecu is seeing engine turning over so everything is correct. So has to be coil / leads / plugs or ecu.
Is it injecting fuel? If you spin it over and pull a plug is it wet?

Maf voltage should be about 1000mv on commander on monitoring airflow.

I am assuming a plug in a lead grounded to engine has no spark?

Simon

Jolly Green Monster · #39 16-09-2010, 08:25 PM

1000mv with ignition on and engine not cranking btw and increasing to circ 1600mv roughly when cranking

Greig · #40 16-09-2010, 09:22 PM

Yep plugs are wet so injectors working and can see on the fpr the pressure when you turn it over,
plug is in lead grounded to engine,
have tried different plugs and apexi and standard ecu
so will try leads and new coil pack tomorrow.
Thanks again

Jolly Green Monster · #41 16-09-2010, 09:31 PM

the ecu won't trigger injectors without triggering spark.. therefore if the same on two ecus then it is unlikely to be an ecu fault (unless something on the car has damaged both ecus which is highly unlikely) therefore it has to be coilpack or wiring.
Unlikely to be leads as not going to get all four fail at once, it would run on two cylinders.

It would be strange for coilpack to fail but possible.. could well be wiring issue to coilpack.

From memory the coilpack has 3wires to it.. 12v and then the trigger wire for front two cylinders and rear two cylinders. check there is 12volts with ignition turned on, on the from memory yellow with red trace.. and the other two wires are red and a blue iirc.
Simon

Legacydan · #42 16-09-2010, 09:36 PM

Just a quick one, did you plug the coilpack wiring back in?

Jolly Green Monster · #43 16-09-2010, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legacydan

Just a quick one, did you plug the coilpack wiring back in?

I was trying to be more subtle..

chuckle chortle!

Simon

Greig · #44 17-09-2010, 06:09 PM

Got new coil pack no joy
power fc says airflow at 1040 mv and doesn't change when turned over
it also said injector duty 0 percent and ignition timing is 21 degrees?

Greig · #45 17-09-2010, 06:31 PM

Also the front two plugs are a lot wetter than the rear two

#46 17-09-2010, 07:07 PM

Bloody hell mate you seem to be having a right mare with this car. Hope one of the above guy's helps sort things for you. Did your brother sell my old bug?

Greig · #47 17-09-2010, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nige

Bloody hell mate you seem to be having a right mare with this car. Hope one of the above guy's helps sort things for you. Did your brother sell my old bug?

Yes unfortunatly, first person who rung up came to see it and payed full asking price, said he's been to see loads and it was the best one he'd seen by miles!
Apparently it's going to be used for hill climb events.
Was an awesome car but he wanted some money for a house,

it's getting a bit annoying now as it was all back together nd now it's apat again!
Hopefully I'll get it sorted somewhen

how's the evo? Any more mods to it yet?
Have you done any more track days?

Scott.T · #48 17-09-2010, 09:18 PM

you mentioed earlier that there is 12v to the coil pack. You could try measuring the ecu sigal wires that aslo connect to the coil. According to the chart above these should measure 3.4v max. Try taking a reading at the ecu and also at the coil.

I can't remember fully but is the coil pack connector/harness part of the inlet manifold harness that comes off complete with the inlet and fuel rails i.e you can lift the whole thing off as a complete item..
Whe the inlet is removed you have to disconnect the harness from the main loom over by the battery.

If so could also be worth buzzing through the ECU ignition signals to this connector block, incase some pins have been pushed back or something has trapped and cut or earthed these signal wires.

Legacydan · #49 17-09-2010, 09:19 PM

Greig if you want me to pop down next week & have a look for you I have a spare couple of days Tuesday & Wednesday.

Dan

Jolly Green Monster · #50 17-09-2010, 09:29 PM

so if you have rpm on the commander but injector duty 0 and maf not moving.. I suspect it is seeing the crank rotating and the trigger but not the cam.. it is not going into proper sync and is not 100% sure when to injector and spark so is doing nothing.

The cam sensor plug / injector number 2 been discussed already?

cam wheel or crank triggers damaged?

Simon

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)