Advice on car with cat d

[scooby doo]

After some advice, my friends peugeot 107 was bought in 21/03/2014
Advertised on auto trader,stating full hpi report,the car was bought for £3000
£2000 cash £1000 on card
Full receipt and a not great printed hpi single paper
Both receipt and hpi copy are not stating the car is in fact a cat d in 2011 which was found out today,
We have copy of advert, and receipt and there "hpi" where all three do not state.
Dealer is a fairly big but not main stream, around 60cars,

Is there a case and what advice would you be thinking as I'm trying to help them..

[Scott.T]

I think your only answer is to go back to the dealer with the recent HPI information.
I don't think HPI will be able to help you with any sort of claim, as the HPI report was funded by the dealer and therefore the insurance policy/guarantee that HPI provide would be with the dealer.

The dealer should make HPI aware and then they should deal with them to arrange any refund/claim. Which I would imagine will then filter down to the car owner.

[scooby doo]

Thanks Scott il advice them on doing that, it's a grey area that's why thought best to ask, as don't want to go the wrong way about it,
I believe there's a claim of some sort there as advertised false.

[Scott.T]

What dealer..Eastbourne way by any chance ?

[scooby doo]

No Scott mid Kent

[scotty]

False advertisement and should have proof of all documentation of the work carried out on the repairs of damage and a VOSA inspection sheet or VIC test to say it's road legal so they should have a claim .

[oldskool]

Its a dealers responsibility to ascertain the vehicles status and advertise it accordingly ,, if it was advertised as hpi clear you are entitled to a full refund

[Banstead Stig]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

.
the HPI report was funded by the dealer and therefore the insurance policy/guarantee that HPI provide would be with the dealer.

The real difficulty here will be proving that the dealer advertised falsely.

It isn't clear to me, but my interpretation is that the dealer did a HPI check, they thought it was clear, a later HPI check showed that it is not clear.

So, in law, your friend has a contract with the dealer. He/She could seek to claim the dealer sold a car other than as advertised.

If my interpretation is correct, the dealer will evidence that they took reasonable steps to check the vehicle, i.e. the HPI report. A court is likely to find in the dealer's favour... they acted reasonably.

Therefore, the "fault" lies either with the previous owner for not disclosing the issue to the dealer or with the HPI check provider for providing an incomplete/erroneous report.

Unfortunately, neither the previous owner, nor the HPI company owe your friend any duty of care, which is the point Silver Surfer has made about the insurance/guarantee.

However, if the dealer is a reasonable sort, they may take up the case with either the previous owner or the HPI provider. They have no real incentive to do that, other than it would be morally and reputationally the right thing to do.

Of course, if it can be shown that they did not get a proper HPI check or falsified/redacted the report to hide the issue, then that is a different story and your friend would have a claim.

[Banstead Stig]

Originally Posted by oldskool

Its a dealers responsibility to ascertain the vehicles status and advertise it accordingly ,, if it was advertised as hpi clear you are entitled to a full refund

Only if you can evidence that the dealer didn't take reasonable steps to check the vehicle's status. I think if the dealer can show they did a HPI check, the law is likely to be on its side as having taken reasonable steps and the dealer is okay to rely on that check.

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by Banstead Stig

Only if you can evidence that the dealer didn't take reasonable steps to check the vehicle's status. I think if the dealer can show they did a HPI check, the law is likely to be on its side as having taken reasonable steps and the dealer is okay to rely on that check.

[scooby doo]

Thanks for input guys
The issue I see is car was written off in 2011 it can not be hpi clear and clearly isn't two reports show this , I've just seen the hpi report it's copy , not orignal one just a printed copy it looks so fake, so I've told then to contact the dealer and get his redponse

[Banstead Stig]

Originally Posted by scooby doo

Thanks for input guys
The issue I see is car was written off in 2011 it can not be hpi clear and clearly isn't two reports show this , I've just seen the hpi report it's copy , not orignal one just a printed copy it looks so fake, so I've told then to contact the dealer and get his redponse

That's the best course of action.

I would also recommend doing so in an amiable fashion. There's no point going straight for the jugular, as that is only going to cause entrenchment and hostility.

If your friend approaches the dealer on the basis that the dealer will be as troubled by this as your friend is, it gives them a way out without being accused of being dodgy (even if they actually are).

If they are twats about it and do not wish to help. then you can get a bit punchier at that stage if needs be.

[Scott.T]

The responsibility lies with HPI as their database is out of date.
If you do your own HPI check and it comes up clear and you later find out otherwise there is a claim process you can take up with HPI.

As the dealer appears to of performed and HPI check, probably with an account he has set up with them, any claim to be made must be done through the dealer.

[scooby doo]

Spoke to dealer,he wasn't to impressed, he's saying could of slipped threw the net and agrees he's in the wrong after she proved he advertised it hpi clear.
Dealer has said it may not had one done by them as there registered by hpi and would of done this report, but there 4/5 salesman and poss the hpi report is old from another owner and just in the paperwork folder.but has got shirty started to say well what you want ,what you want to do.,
shes said, I paid £3000 for the car, owned for 8months and done mot and service,
im willing to offer you to buy the car back for around £2500, as that's what I was planning to advertise around £2600 now knowning the car is cat d its instant 30/40% devalued.
dealer response no chance had it not far of a year and want £500 less, no chance,
she replied, well trading standards said there's a full claim here.
dealers response, il speak to my business partner and get in touch.

so that's where she stands atm guys,
I appreciate all your comments, I knew would be worth while posting on here,
cheers.

[oldskool]

Approach it with a level head and politely and patience for best results

There is indeed a six to eight week window either side of an event occurring to a vehicle where an hpi check can be incorrect as system doesnt update/record events so quickly

If the vehicle was written off two years prior to being sold by the trader they clearly either didnt do their job and hpi it or didnt use a reputable hpi company

Either way its their fault

[555_Si]

i don't trust hpi that much anyway, i have false records on my car that were put on their in my ownership, so i know it isn't true, like my car has been clocked twice apparently (R32) though the readings are something like it has been clocked at 68,000 miles then 68 miles, then again later at 75,000 and then days 75 miles. i have only just found this out and also that somehow it had outstanding finance on it, when infact there has never been finance on it since i bought it, and it was Hpi checked when i bought it, a year after i bought it, and about 2 years before i bought it, all showing clear!

[RobEvo5]

£3K in a dealer, several months on it would be worth 2K now on a private sale even if it were not on the register. And CAT D devalues car by about 30% to a sub 2K car, and makes it very,very difficult to sell.

If they are offering 2.5K its not a bad offer TBH and would take it, as it's a very quick and easy out for fair money.

The dealer is in the wrong, and you could hold out for a better offer, but my experience is dealers can quickly turn off the charm and the nice guy customer service approach and turn into a typical dellboy dealer and turn nasty on you and offer you nothing and tell you to jog on..

[scooby doo]

Rob she offered them that deal £2500 he said no. So she is awaiting a response now, like you said it's worth half what she paid for it 8months ago bow

[Banstead Stig]

Originally Posted by oldskool

Approach it with a level head and politely and patience for best results

There is indeed a six to eight week window either side of an event occurring to a vehicle where an hpi check can be incorrect as system doesnt update/record events so quickly

If the vehicle was written off two years prior to being sold by the trader they clearly either didnt do their job and hpi it or didnt use a reputable hpi company

Either way its their fault

I agree with your first point, but not your last.

If, and it is a big if given the additional information that we now have, the dealer did a HPI check then it is not the dealer's fault the check was deficient.

Sounds like the dealer has pretty much admitted they didn't do the check.

Best of luck to your friend.

[oldskool]

I see what youre saying Stig but from the ops first post it was clear the dealer hadnt done their job and checked it with a reputable hpi company

A reputable hpi company would at this point be admitting they had misinformed the dealer and sorting out a settlement as info was wrong and thats unsatisfactory

Notwithsatnding hpi isnt foolproof but thats why the proper ones offer guarantees on their verification

As stated above hpi can be wrong - especially re finance as people can take payday loans etc against cars that wont show on hpi for months and then sell them immediately - indeed there are cases where people have bought a car off one dealer on finance then sold it for cash to another dealer the same day never intending to pay a penny off the finance and it happens too quick to register on the system

A proper hpi check would of showed the car being a write off two years before , the dealer didnt do one and if he did either didnt use an approved company or if an approved company should right now be claiming the ops friends money back for him

Unfortunately so many shysters in car trade still they will be very lucky to just get a full refund but they are entitled to one - lets not forget some of the car was paid on card so that gives purchaser even more rights and avenues of recompense

Op should ask for a full and total refund - nothing less

[riiidaa]

if the grand on card was a credit card, you may have some luck there

[scooby doo]

Some really good points here,
Debit card was used. As on the day the bank only allowed her to withdraw £2k hence rest on the card.
As soon as a response is heard back of the dealer il let you know.

[scooby doo]

UPDATE. 12/01
Spoke to trading standards, they have said about sending them letter to the dealer to start the ball rolling legally.

I rang the dealer as thought to see if we can sort this easy and painless,
He was fairly rude, stating been trading 30yrs no issues, i'm hpi and tranded standards registered, I've got nothing to hide, I tried to slow him down at this point and say so she is to blame, and in the wrong??
response was no, this car has slipped threw our net, so I said that's her fault then?
he snapped il buy the car back. I said the figure is £2500, that's a loss of £500 in 9months.
I was laughed at and responded try renting a car for that long at £500,
i've said what has that anything to do with it, its your mistake not hers, and you should put it right, was greeted with a mutter of £2000 or less once I work my figures. I ve said no sorry £2500 min. that's fair to right your wrong,
To which I got was see you in a year in court then. where the judge will see ive got no priors and clean 30yrs trading. no issues
left it on he's going to confirm tomo a figure to buying the car back but was told it will not be near £2500

whats annoying is, say one of you guys bought your Scoob from a dealer saved up and bought it for 5k to find 9months later that is been smashed and and now worth £2800 (40%less) id be gutted,
and that's what this lass did, saved up, caught train for ages to buy this model 06 car with 32k from a dealer as wanted warranty and piece of mind. now new role forces her to drive so needs a diesel. then finds out her cars worth half what she paid for it, couldn't even trade it in unless wanted 1k for it.

[Scott.T]

Plug the reg into 'we buy any car'.
I think you will find that it comes back at less than £2k
So as a trade in it would be similar even hi clear.
Therefore he has a point regarding renting for 9 months.
If it were noticed after a few weeks or maybe a few months you would have a better case to argue.

[scooby doo]

Scott, going price on net, eBay mainly is £2500,
I'm trying to be a third party to it ,
But I still see it's dealers fault, and don't see why she has to pick up the slack , reason we buy from dealers is peace of mind with warranty and no issues but this isn't the case,
Let's say your hawk was bought from there and you was presanted with hpi ticket,then you go to sell it 9months later , yes you think bit of devalue then find out try 40% less as on hit list.
I'd be screwing, im trying to see it from both sides
But trying to keep a over look as I know she will react non professional and loose it lol,

[scooby doo]

we buy any car say £2110 so private sale id say for non cat car is £2500

[riiidaa]

Hello, does she no longer need this car then? Was her original plan along the lines of being a keeper and to run it into the ground - or sell within a year?

As far as I can see she was wronged at the point of sale regarding it being supposedly HPI'd by dealer and it having been a cat D in the past, providing the car was repaired reputably and she isn't with some ****y insurance provider who won't cover a cat-d vehicle is it worth the buy back agro and sourcing another brum-brum?

[Banstead Stig]

That's a good point RIIIDAA.

If she can now find out what's wrong with it and conclude it's not anything that would make you not trust the car I'd go for a compensation payment.

See how quickly the chap changes his mind on value! Let him commit to the buyback value, compare it to the market value for a trade in and the difference is what she has lost.

If the numbers work out, I'd go for that.

[scooby doo]

No car was to keep, until promotion and travel requiments meant needs a diesal ,
Spoke with her this eve and the bank have taken it on and said If the case of miss sold good is right, which they said looking at facts is right, they will issue refund

[riiidaa]

Originally Posted by scooby doo

Spoke with her this eve and the bank have taken it on and said If the case of miss sold good is right, which they said looking at facts is right, they will issue refund

that sounds promising, being that it wasn't a credit card purchase

[Scott.T]

Why did she hpi it 9 months after purchase.
I don't think anyone on here would expect to get £2500 via trade or private sale for a car that was purchased 9 months ago at a dealer for £3000.
The dealer probably only gave £1500-£1800 for it as a trade in or auction even 9 months ago.
Had anyone spoken to hpi yet ?

[scooby doo]

I should of said , she put it in for fresh mot and service to sell,
When on the ramp was noted had some signs of damage, I'm not aware of what, or what was said, but this led them to think somthing wasn't right, found the fact it wasn't clear, then made me aware of it.
Starting to look at more and more details. As I wasn't presant at time of sale etc,
This is my own thought to as being third party.
That the dealer is/was fully aware. The hpi cert is old.
The car should infact of been £4000 9montgs ago from a dealer.
As book price at the mo is trade £2090 and private £24/600 ,
So In my eyes either the dealer knew and bought it cheap and they repaired it or he in fact they bought it trade in for £3000 later found it wasn't happy days, and slung it out cheap hope ing no come backs?

But like I said the bank are taking over now, so no need for me to be involved.