South East Scoobies  

Go Back   South East Scoobies > The Garage > General Mechanics > Car DIY walk throughs

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 14-11-2014, 05:28 PM
Scott.T's Avatar
Scott.T Scott.T is offline
Admin, Meets/Events Organiser.... formerly known as SilverSurfer
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hastings, East Sussex
Posts: 9,468
Default DIY TD05 Turbo Overhaul/Upgrade

After about 7-8 years of running an IHI VF28 (replacing the previous TD04) I thought it was about time I had a little upgrade.
I couldn't justify spending 850 - 1300+ on a new Turbo, so thought I would have a go at updating a used TD05.

With the help of other fellow DIY'ers and YouTube I felt confident that this was a job worth tackling.
When you break a turbo down into it's piece parts it makes even more sense, and I struggle to understand why Turbo chargers are so expensive.

It's shocking to think that most dealers will replace a complete turbo when an oil seal fails !!!!

I acquired an early 1993-1996 WRX TD05H 90 degree's turbo, for 58.
This was sold as a good runner, and reported to have recently produced 287BHP.

The plan for this is as follows :
TD05 18G Front Entry Compressor Housing
TD05 18G 11 Blade Billet Compressor wheel
Porting (option, I need to look into this further)
Full Overhaul Kit inc. New bearings and Seals
New Water/Oil Kit

TD05H (16G), 90 Degree Entry :




Disassemble in the following order, using :

19mm spanner, to remove Water Pipes
10mm Socket, to remove Oil Drain Pipe
Small screwdriver to remove Wastegate Circlip
12mm Socket, to remove Actuator
10mm Socket, to remove Turbo clamp/band
Hide Hammer or Plastic Hammer, to remove Exhaust Housing from Turbo Cartridge
Large Circlip pliers (or long nose pliers), to remove Compressor Housing Circlip

You will then have the following :



Turbo Cartridge :



Checking Shaft Play / End Float :

Ignore the scratching sound in these video's when the turbo is spun. That is just the Exhaust Turbine wheel catching on a cover that floats loose once the housings are split.




Removal of Compressor Wheel :

10mm Multi-point socket
12mm Multi-point socket

Note : The shaft may be a Clockwise or Anti-Clockwise thread, so take care when loosening



Another check of the Shaft Play / End Float



Considering the potential age of this turbo it doesn't look too bad.
It could probably be left alone, but for the sake of $59 for a overhaul kit, it's worth rebuilding

Holding the Turbine wheel and giving a slight tug will release the whole wheel/shaft assembly.
Here you can see one of the bearings which is quite a simple brass sleeve with oil holes through it



Compressor wheel cleaned and weighed (50g), to compare against the 18G when it arrives.
Oliver has now nicked this for his Bedroom, for his shelf of shiny car part !!!!!!



That's it for the moment.
The cartridge will remain in one piece until the overhaul kit arrive
In the meantime I hope to get the Exhaust housing bead blasted at work.
(To be Continued)
  #2  
Old 14-11-2014, 08:14 PM
Hongkongfooi's Avatar
Hongkongfooi Hongkongfooi is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 5,783
Default

looks relatively easy job
  #3  
Old 14-11-2014, 08:28 PM
C. J.'s Avatar
C. J. C. J. is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Horsham
Posts: 5,081
Default

Built a few over the years , bearing changes very simple
__________________
Eat, Sleep, Race , Repeat
  #4  
Old 14-11-2014, 08:38 PM
Scott.T's Avatar
Scott.T Scott.T is offline
Admin, Meets/Events Organiser.... formerly known as SilverSurfer
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hastings, East Sussex
Posts: 9,468
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by C. J. View Post
Built a few over the years , bearing changes very simple
Let's hope so. Watched a few YouTube video's and looks straight forward.
I can't believe how little is in there and the price of parts.

I initially thought the kit would be bearings and seals, but it contains everything except the turbine shaft.

What's your opinion on the play on the shaft in those clips ?
  #5  
Old 14-11-2014, 09:17 PM
C. J.'s Avatar
C. J. C. J. is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Horsham
Posts: 5,081
Default

Doesn't seem to bad oil is the bearing at the end of the day but some exess movement .
__________________
Eat, Sleep, Race , Repeat
  #6  
Old 14-11-2014, 09:41 PM
scotty's Avatar
scotty scotty is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: In ma bed
Posts: 5,804
Default

Liking this little thread .
__________________
Maintained by Hypertech and Mapped by Andy Forrest

1998 UK Turbo , 1998 Terzo , 1997 JDM Type R the money pit , 2004 black WRX STI Type UK , 2004 blue FSTI
  #7  
Old 16-11-2014, 07:58 PM
Scott.T's Avatar
Scott.T Scott.T is offline
Admin, Meets/Events Organiser.... formerly known as SilverSurfer
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hastings, East Sussex
Posts: 9,468
Default

Just ordered :
18G/20G Compressor Housing
18G 11 Blade Billet Wheel
Oil & Water pipes kit
Overhaul Kit

Lets see how long it take to arrive from Japan.
  #8  
Old 16-11-2014, 08:53 PM
BIG"E"'s Avatar
BIG"E" BIG"E" is offline
Events / Ring Trip Organiser
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hastings
Posts: 8,883
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSurfer View Post
Just ordered :
18G/20G Compressor Housing
18G 11 Blade Billet Wheel
Oil & Water pipes kit
Overhaul Kit

Lets see how long it take to arrive from Japan.
I bet it is quicker than Culverwells can get spring clip with a nut
__________________
Keep it on the black stuff and leave the pit boards alone
  #9  
Old 17-11-2014, 06:48 PM
2-jaffacake-tone's Avatar
2-jaffacake-tone 2-jaffacake-tone is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: hastings
Posts: 1,810
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG"E" View Post
I bet it is quicker than Culverwells can get spring clip with a nut
Haha very true!
__________________
all over it jaffa style!!!
  #10  
Old 18-11-2014, 08:37 PM
Krissyb's Avatar
Krissyb Krissyb is offline
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: kent
Posts: 436
Default

Great thread mate, just wondering about the whole balancing proceedure
  #11  
Old 19-11-2014, 10:30 AM
Scott.T's Avatar
Scott.T Scott.T is offline
Admin, Meets/Events Organiser.... formerly known as SilverSurfer
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hastings, East Sussex
Posts: 9,468
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krissyb View Post
Great thread mate, just wondering about the whole balancing proceedure
I think there is alot of myth, smoke and mirrors with regard to balancing. A bit like commercial mappers/tuners.
Besides the Kamak/Kinugawa comes pre-balanced.

All the parts are individually balanced, so they should be pretty close.

However, according to providers of balancing services !!!!! there can be a tolerance build up on the compressor side (they quote that the Turbine side is not effected on an assembled CHRA).
This can be corrected by small amounts of grinding of either the Compressor wheel or Shaft nut.

But this seems to be more of a fine tuning exercise mainly provided to Turbo Charger rebuild/re-manufacturer companies, to ensure that any tolerance stack-up doesn't cause the Turbo to fail prematurely.
I read this as a service that provides confidence that the rebuild will outlast the warranty period that the company supplying the rebuilt/re-manufactured turbo may provide.

Besides any turbo with the slightest nick/bent fin on the compressor will be un-balanced to probably a great degree.

I have found a company offering the service for 50, and have also emailed Turbo Dynamics for a quote.
I would be interested in other peoples view's, especially those that have rebuilt DIY style before.
  #12  
Old 19-11-2014, 04:52 PM
Krissyb's Avatar
Krissyb Krissyb is offline
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: kent
Posts: 436
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSurfer View Post
I think there is alot of myth, smoke and mirrors with regard to balancing. A bit like commercial mappers/tuners.
Besides the Kamak/Kinugawa comes pre-balanced.

All the parts are individually balanced, so they should be pretty close.

However, according to providers of balancing services !!!!! there can be a tolerance build up on the compressor side (they quote that the Turbine side is not effected on an assembled CHRA).
This can be corrected by small amounts of grinding of either the Compressor wheel or Shaft nut.

But this seems to be more of a fine tuning exercise mainly provided to Turbo Charger rebuild/re-manufacturer companies, to ensure that any tolerance stack-up doesn't cause the Turbo to fail prematurely.
I read this as a service that provides confidence that the rebuild will outlast the warranty period that the company supplying the rebuilt/re-manufactured turbo may provide.

Besides any turbo with the slightest nick/bent fin on the compressor will be un-balanced to probably a great degree.

I have found a company offering the service for 50, and have also emailed Turbo Dynamics for a quote.
I would be interested in other peoples view's, especially those that have rebuilt DIY style before.
Nice on mate
  #13  
Old 21-11-2014, 07:17 PM
Scott.T's Avatar
Scott.T Scott.T is offline
Admin, Meets/Events Organiser.... formerly known as SilverSurfer
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hastings, East Sussex
Posts: 9,468
Default

I've been looking into the balancing issue, and have also had correspondence with Kamak/Kinugawa who recommend an assembly balance.

There are 2 types of balancing :
1. Rotor Assembly Balancing (Turbine Wheel/Shaft, Compressor Wheel & Shaft Nut)
2. Fully Assembled CHRA Balance

The disadvantage of Method 1 is that it has to be disassembled to refit it into the CHRA (Cartridge).
It also does not include balance with bearings or oil seals (which are like metal circlips). Therefore it is not as accurate as the full CHRA balance.

Turbo Dynamics only balance as part of a full Inspection Service, starting at 195+VAT subject to the results of the inspection.

Other balancing services are available online.
I have located a Method 1 service for 50 and a Method 2 service for 39 + 12 postage. So I think I will go with Method 2.

Method 2 doesn't require disassemble after balance, just needs the Exhaust Housing and Compressor Housing bolted back on.

The machines used vary from large lathe type machines, to bench top soft bearing balancing machines.

All normally come with before & after results.
  #14  
Old 03-12-2014, 08:59 PM
Scott.T's Avatar
Scott.T Scott.T is offline
Admin, Meets/Events Organiser.... formerly known as SilverSurfer
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hastings, East Sussex
Posts: 9,468
Default

Upgrade parts arrived from Kamak/Kinugawa






I need to talk with Kinugawa about the compressor housing.
They appear to supply 2 types :
Type 1 : 2.21inch inlet, direct replacement with Subaru specific actuator mounting webbing. (Actuator mounting web's shown above on the original TD05 housing)
http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/tu...td0618g-1.aspx

Type 2 : 2.4inch inlet with different actuator mountings. The standard actuator doesn't line up with the holes or clear the housing.
http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/tu...-1wheel-1.aspx
Kinugawa use this housing if you purchase a full turbo.

I received the 2nd item, under the advise of Kinugawa, which means my actuator won't fit.
However, the 11 blade billet may not fit in the slightly smaller 2.21inch Subaru specific housing, so I may have to go for an upgraded actuator.
  #15  
Old 04-12-2014, 11:40 PM
scotty's Avatar
scotty scotty is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: In ma bed
Posts: 5,804
Default

If you are going for an upgrade actuator Scott how about a nice forge actuator.
__________________
Maintained by Hypertech and Mapped by Andy Forrest

1998 UK Turbo , 1998 Terzo , 1997 JDM Type R the money pit , 2004 black WRX STI Type UK , 2004 blue FSTI
  #16  
Old 05-12-2014, 09:03 AM
Scott.T's Avatar
Scott.T Scott.T is offline
Admin, Meets/Events Organiser.... formerly known as SilverSurfer
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hastings, East Sussex
Posts: 9,468
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty View Post
If you are going for an upgrade actuator Scott how about a nice forge actuator.
Forge probably woudn't fit due to the Compressor housing design.
It would fit will a small amount of fabrication, which would also allow the standard actuator to fit.
But I may aswell stick with Kinugawa, and one of these :


  #17  
Old 16-01-2015, 05:19 PM
Scott.T's Avatar
Scott.T Scott.T is offline
Admin, Meets/Events Organiser.... formerly known as SilverSurfer
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hastings, East Sussex
Posts: 9,468
Default

Slow progress, but a little.
Still talking with Kinugawa about Compressor Housing/Actuator situation.
Last email seemed to sound like a 'New' Adjustable Actuator was being sent FOC, due to the cost to return the compressor being close to the price of the Actuator.
Hopefully should get an email soon confirming shipment.

Spent a bit of time today wire brushing the exhaust housing.
It took a little longer then expected as I also had to fit new studs, two of which needed re-tapping due to being damaged by the previous owner on extraction.

The photo's show it a little wet. This is just damp left from a good old going over with a baby wipe to remove the rusty dusty........


  #18  
Old 18-01-2015, 06:12 PM
Scott.T's Avatar
Scott.T Scott.T is offline
Admin, Meets/Events Organiser.... formerly known as SilverSurfer
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hastings, East Sussex
Posts: 9,468
Default

Well I got the bearing housing/cartridge all built up today, then realised the 18G Billet doesn't fit..........

When fitted and the shaft nut lightly tightened the wheel makes contact with the bearing housing/cartridge.
This wheel was provided by dealing direct with Kinugawa staff (not just picked off the website), as I was offered the 11-Blade or a 5+5 blade.
To me it looks like the profile of the base of the compressor wheel does not give enough clearance due to the larger 18G size of the wheel.

Billet Wheel fitted, showing contact with bearing housing/cartridge and shaft nut right on tip of shaft :

Original 16G wheel fitted, no contact and spins up fine :


Head scratching required, followed by another email to Kinugawa.
Whilst that goes through the interweb to Japan I did a bit of research (it's much more fun doing it after the event). It turns out that the bearing housing needs to be machined to accept an 18G wheel DOH !!!!!!!!.

A chat with the is now Bro-in-law required regarding his lathe and 4-jaw chuck......or if anyone on here can help ...................
  #19  
Old 18-01-2015, 06:24 PM
C. J.'s Avatar
C. J. C. J. is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Horsham
Posts: 5,081
Default

When I did mine 9 years ago used a drill in a vice put a bolt though the hole and span it up on low speed . Then filed away un needed material
__________________
Eat, Sleep, Race , Repeat
  #20  
Old 18-01-2015, 07:34 PM
Scott.T's Avatar
Scott.T Scott.T is offline
Admin, Meets/Events Organiser.... formerly known as SilverSurfer
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hastings, East Sussex
Posts: 9,468
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by C. J. View Post
When I did mine 9 years ago used a drill in a vice put a bolt though the hole and span it up on low speed . Then filed away un needed material
I was thinking dremmel, as it doesn't have to be accurate just for clearance. Bro-in-law is on the case, just about to email him pictures.
  #21  
Old 30-01-2015, 05:54 PM
Scott.T's Avatar
Scott.T Scott.T is offline
Admin, Meets/Events Organiser.... formerly known as SilverSurfer
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hastings, East Sussex
Posts: 9,468
Default

A bit more progress.
Bearing Housing/Cartridge CNC machined to take the bigger wheel





Compressor housing fitted, to check clearances prior to sending of for balancing :
  #22  
Old 30-01-2015, 08:38 PM
Red Baron's Avatar
Red Baron Red Baron is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: St Leonards on Sea
Posts: 2,720
Default

The joys of having a mechanical engineer in the family, can't be much going through the machine shop now, what other work is Andy taking on.
  #23  
Old 30-01-2015, 08:42 PM
Scott.T's Avatar
Scott.T Scott.T is offline
Admin, Meets/Events Organiser.... formerly known as SilverSurfer
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hastings, East Sussex
Posts: 9,468
Default

Andy didn't do it as he can't run the cnc.
Mark W sorted it.
  #24  
Old 19-03-2015, 11:30 PM
scotty's Avatar
scotty scotty is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: In ma bed
Posts: 5,804
Default

Any updates on this Scott .
__________________
Maintained by Hypertech and Mapped by Andy Forrest

1998 UK Turbo , 1998 Terzo , 1997 JDM Type R the money pit , 2004 black WRX STI Type UK , 2004 blue FSTI
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Opinions expressed are not necessarily the opinions of SouthEastScoobies or any individuals directly or indirectly involved in this website. No responsibility is taken or assumed for any comments or statements made on this or any associated website. Visitors who use this website and rely on, or act on any information do so at their own judgement, discretion and or risk. SouthEastScoobies or its content providers shall not be liable for any loss or damage arising from or otherwise in connection with your use of SouthEastScoobies forums. It is not possible for the Administrators of these forums, or the Moderators participating, to fully and effectively monitor Messages that are submitted for infringement of third party rights. If you believe that any information within the forums infringes your legal rights, or gives cause for concern you should notify an Administrator or a Moderator immediately giving such information to enable the recipient to amend, delete or remove in its entirety the message, at their earliest convenience.