Bob Rawle Map "Tinker"

Had a good day at Bobs yesterday in Swindon.

Unlike the last time I went there, the map had held up well from last year and was pretty much bang where he left it.

Bob being Bob decided to have a tinker all the same. Did the usual runs on the A419 (or Swindon race circuit as I know it! ), in total did 6 runs, followed by a stop and re-flash.

The runs consisted of holding 0.5 bar in 5th until told, then hold 1.0bar in 5th until told and finally 2 goes at foot flat to the floor in 5th until told.

Bob improved Turbo response (spooling much earlier) and added a real low to mid range punch. The road dyno showed that this has given some gains.

Last years dyno was 348bhp & 345nm torque. This years looks like it will give me 351bhp (he said the bhp was good where it was and thought it wise to leave roughly where it was) but he reckons we have put about 15-20 nm torque on it giving hopefully about 360nm +. He will send the graphs over to me next week.

Had a cracking drive home, cruising at 75-80 (honestly too ) but when I went for a gap in traffic to overtake it really pulled hard and took off superbly. Really really happy with it.

I also chatted about my plans for the old girl once I own it (next month) and what I want to acheive (370-380 on bhp & nm) and has pointed in the right direction.

Then to round the day off, he thinks he will be able to map the M3 too! I nearly wet my pants!!!!!

Finally, I raised the question about oil. He does use Shell Helix Ultra 5W 40. And he uses this drag racing too. He said it is by far the most consistent he has used and the best by far for oil temp. He has tried many oils but absolutely swears by it.

Right, I'm off for a spin in the old girl! Laters all!

[BIG"E"]

Nice one Worzel,

I wish I could have come with you did you go with Subarman in the end ?

[SUBARMAN]

No - mine's in a few weeks!!!!

[BIG"E"]

Top job matey.
I am planning to get my injectors this month, then next month if all goes well,Scott will be mapping mine.

Pick all my freshly painted panels up next week, Yippee.


You M3 will be a beast mate.

[DukeBoy]

Good Good worth the trip then

[Scott.T]

Did Bob put a 3-port on it last time ?
What boost is it running, as if a 3 port is on there the VF should be able to hold boost a bit better higher up the revs.

[Lucky]

This just makes me even more impatient. Sounds like it transforms the car. Hopefully mine will be done during the summer. Looking for 350/350 ish

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

Did Bob put a 3-port on it last time ?
What boost is it running, as if a 3 port is on there the VF should be able to hold boost a bit better higher up the revs.

In all honesty, don't know about the 3 port. Running 1.4bar and holding that from 3.5k - 5.5k through the 3rd - 6th.

Well worth the trip, would recommend it to anyone. If I hadn't been with Bob for a number of years I would obviously go through Scott. But I am saving Scott for the "Uber Wagon"

[2-jaffacake-tone]

sounds good mate what was his advise for future plans?

[majorscooby]

Originally Posted by worzel

In all honesty, don't know about the 3 port. Running 1.4bar and holding that from 3.5k - 5.5k through the 3rd - 6th.

Well worth the trip, would recommend it to anyone. If I hadn't been with Bob for a number of years I would obviously go through Scott. But I am saving Scott for the "Uber Wagon"

How much is a remap fella? My wagons very standard so would i get anything out of a remap.

Originally Posted by 2-jaffacake-tone

sounds good mate what was his advise for future plans?

They ALL involve you my good man!

Headers and ports, turbo, top mount (maybe). As and when matey, I will contact you if thats ok?

Originally Posted by majorscooby

How much is a remap fella? My wagons very standard so would i get anything out of a remap.

Original Tek3 map and license about £500-£600. My yearly tinker and map check is £120.00. Well worth every penny.

Originally Posted by worzel

Had a good day at Bobs yesterday in Swindon.

Unlike the last time I went there, the map had held up well from last year and was pretty much bang where he left it.

Bob being Bob decided to have a tinker all the same. Did the usual runs on the A419 (or Swindon race circuit as I know it! ), in total did 6 runs, followed by a stop and re-flash.

The runs consisted of holding 0.5 bar in 5th until told, then hold 1.0bar in 5th until told and finally 2 goes at foot flat to the floor in 5th until told.

Bob improved Turbo response (spooling much earlier) and added a real low to mid range punch. The road dyno showed that this has given some gains.

Last years dyno was 348bhp & 345nm torque. This years looks like it will give me 351bhp (he said the bhp was good where it was and thought it wise to leave roughly where it was) but he reckons we have put about 15-20 nm torque on it giving hopefully about 360nm +. He will send the graphs over to me next week.

Had a cracking drive home, cruising at 75-80 (honestly too ) but when I went for a gap in traffic to overtake it really pulled hard and took off superbly. Really really happy with it.

I also chatted about my plans for the old girl once I own it (next month) and what I want to acheive (370-380 on bhp & nm) and has pointed in the right direction.

Then to round the day off, he thinks he will be able to map the M3 too! I nearly wet my pants!!!!!

Finally, I raised the question about oil. He does use Shell Helix Ultra 5W 40. And he uses this drag racing too. He said it is by far the most consistent he has used and the best by far for oil temp. He has tried many oils but absolutely swears by it.

Right, I'm off for a spin in the old girl! Laters all!

Bloody good figures mate. What engine are you running?

[SUBARMAN]

The first thing Bob did before he mapped mine last time was swop to a three port - he has shelves full of them. So I would be surprised if Worzel's is not so equipped.

Originally Posted by Nige

Bloody good figures mate. What engine are you running?

When I got the car, I got the STi8 Type UK with PPP. The original engine let go on the big end (at around 27,000 miles) and I had a new engine put in under warrantee. Dave @ Gatwick put in a short block 2.0l.

Apart from that, I have not touched the engine at all. In fact as far as the "oily bit" goes, it is just the Air filter that has been changed / upgraded. This is due to the fact I will only own the car as of April this year.

I have even kept the original Sportcat on there so it's not even de-catted. Most of the things I have done to it are external / cosmetic mods. Vortex Afterburner back box / white line Anti roll-lift throughout etc. Apart from that it runs completely off the shelf Subaru parts.

Being PPP, it did have uprated fuel pump and all the other whistles and bells that come with the package which helps immensly with re-mapping the car. Bob in hind sight may have done the 3 port at the original mapping session, I kind of remember it happening, but age has fuggled the mind somewhat!

I am looking forward to the rolling road day though, to see the difference between the Road Dyno and the rollers Dyno. Bob reckons that the BHP won't be far off but the torque figures will probably be down on the Surrey Rollers. He has asked me to send all of the figures I get from Surrey to him out of curiosity.

It's one of those divided camps as far as roller / road dyno tests goes. From the road dyno side of things, it does give you "real life" loads and also drag effect comes into it. I haven't had it on the rollers since before I first got the tek3 remap some 3 years ago. The last one I had on rollers was 299bhp & 301nm torque (as opposed to 301bhp & 305nm torque as PPP says it gives you) at power engineering in it's "Standard PPP" format. The car was a year old at the time.

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by majorscooby

How much is a remap fella? My wagons very standard so would i get anything out of a remap.

YHPM

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by Nige

IIRC, thats using Bob's ECUTEK road dyno or Buttometer, not a real RR.
Will see for sure at Surrey RR on 14th
My road dyno is very hit'n'miss and little things make a big difference i.e tyre wear, road surface, weight of fuel in tank......you can make the figure whatever you like, by adjusting v.small parameters.

P.S Surrey do read lower then most, but are deemed to be v.accurate, unlike Power Engineering.
For Example Jim's Spec-C only record 327BHP but 2 weeks prior got 347BHP at Powerstation.

Mine achieved 305BHP/305ftlb last time out but 321BHP/316tlb at PE several months before, plus it felt quicker at 305BHP then it did at 321BHP, so go figure...........

I can't wait to see what it does on the rollers myself.

Bob reckons BHP won't be far wrong from his figure, but torque will be down on Surreys rollers he said.

Bob does use the Ecutek road dyno. He has always said though that he always goes over on transmission loss (IIRC, was a while back he explained the set up) and allows 20% as opposed to what equates to about 16-17% (again IIRC, old man syndrome strikes again )

I hope to have Bobs graphs in the next day or two, so will post them.

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by worzel

I can't wait to see what it does on the rollers myself.

Bob reckons BHP won't be far wrong from his figure, but torque will be down on Surreys rollers he said.

Bob does use the Ecutek road dyno. He has always said though that he always goes over on transmission loss (IIRC, was a while back he explained the set up) and allows 20% as opposed to what equates to about 16-17% (again IIRC, old man syndrome strikes again )

I hope to have Bobs graphs in the next day or two, so will post them.

Did he do the power run in 3rd or 4th on the 6-speeder ??

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

Did he do the power run in 3rd or 4th on the 6-speeder ??

Did the power run in 3rd

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by worzel

Did the power run in 3rd

thought so...4th gets a bit hairy out on the road with the 6-speeder.

Just a bit I should think!

Doing the open road runs in 5th and foot to the floor until he says stop, which was at about 6700rpm was lets say......

.....interesting.

He yells stop, you brake and look down to see the needle going down to about 115!

Bum in seat! How does this compare to your M3?

I would say that if I were to put the two side by side and gun them, the scoob would wet all over the M3 up to around 100. After that, the M3 would steadily reign it in.

The scooby feels electric, really punchy, always wanting to be pushed. It sounds funny, but the scooby is just not easy to drive slowly. It always feels like it wants you to drive it hard.

The M3 is definately more refined and extremely easy to drive at slow and fast speeds. The torque in the M3 is brilliant, it always feels like it wants to pull and keep pulling hard. It only lacks that turbo punch that the scooby gives you.

With regard the "Ring" I would imagine that there would be very little difference between the two time wise. The scoob would be much better in the twistier sections and would get out of the corners a lot quicker. But the M3 would pull it all back on the longer sections as it would be wound up already.

In essence. I am extremely lucky to have both and appreciate both cars as they are both magnificent in there own rights. The scooby still puts the biggest smile on my face though

[SUBARMAN]

Originally Posted by worzel

Just a bit I should think!

Doing the open road runs in 5th and foot to the floor until he says stop, which was at about 6700rpm was lets say......

.....interesting.

He yells stop, you brake and look down to see the needle going down to about 115!

Yeh! And hoping nobody pulls out into your lane while you are holding the throttle down......

Originally Posted by SUBARMAN

Yeh! And hoping nobody pulls out into your lane while you are holding the throttle down......

Tell me about it! He is so intent on watching the laptop and listening to the earphones that he doesn't always notice whats ahead.

A couple of times I was urging him to say "and off" while my bum was puckering the seat cover!

[SUBARMAN]

That is not a nice image - I am going to lie down now!

Originally Posted by worzel

With regard the "Ring" I would imagine that there would be very little difference between the two time wise. The scoob would be much better in the twistier sections and would get out of the corners a lot quicker. But the M3 would pull it all back on the longer sections as it would be wound up already

Some times for you taken from http://www.bridgetogantry.com/

7m32s Yamaha YZF-R1 998cc "sliders" 155bhp/188kg 824

7m35s Suzuki GSX-R1000 K7 998cc dale 175bhp/199kg 879

7m44s Suzuki GSX-R1000 K5 998cc malc 160bhp/195kg 821

7m53s BMW M3 CSL 3200cc dontdobends' 360bhp/1460kg 247

7m54s Toyota Supra mkIV 2997cc gareth bolton 500bhp/1495kg 334

7m57s Mazda RX7 1308cc max taylor 400bhp/1300kg 308

8m00s Yamaha YZF-R1 998cc joerund seim 145bhp/195kg 744

8m02s BMW M3 E36 3200cc peter hoffman 286bhp/1350kg 212

8m08s Subaru Impreza WRX STi 2500cc todd stratton 350bhp/1472kg 238

8m10s Porsche 996 Turbo 3800cc jason clow 580bhp/1600kg 363

8m16s Audi RS4 4163cc frank stippler 420bhp/1650kg 255

8m19s Porsche 944 Turbo 2479cc dave malings 297bhp/1400kg 212

8m20s BMW M3 E30 2300cc espen 230bhp/1200kg 192

8m22s Subaru Impreza WRX STi 1990cc gary kinghorn 329bhp/1470kg 224

8m26s BMW 320is 2000cc jake 210bhp/1200kg 175

8m30s BMW M5 E60 Ring Taxi 5000cc sabine schmidt 507bhp/1680kg 302

8m38s Honda Civic 1800cc davetouring 180bhp/980kg 184

8m42s BMW 335 E30 3500cc Jim Cameron 240bhp/1300kg 185

8m46s Mazda MX5 mk1 1600cc dale 100bhp/1100kg 95

8m46s VW Golf CL mk2 2000cc Nige 170bhp/950kg 179

8m51s VW Golf GTi mk1 (2ltr) 1998cc "ianv" 173bhp/860kg 201

8m52s Peugeot 205GTi 1900cc gary kinghorn 139bhp/864kg 161

There are some good times there. M3 & Scoobs there or there abouts the same. M3 slightly better from those times.

Maybe............



















............ I'm taking the wrong car!

think a lot of it comes down to the driver check out the civic

You are very right

Look at Sabines time in the Ring Taxi! I bet that was 4 up too!!!

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by worzel

Tell me about it! He is so intent on watching the laptop and listening to the earphones that he doesn't always notice whats ahead.

A couple of times I was urging him to say "and off" while my bum was puckering the seat cover!

Yep..that's about right...only 115 eh!, just playing then .....

I get people asking me if the car feels quick when I am mapping.....havn't got a clue...nose in laptop trying to watch 3 things on the screen, boost gauge in one hand and detcans headphones dulling the surroundings, it's easy to to forget to look out the window

I do always tell them to only do what is comfortable to them, and most is done in 3rd anyway.

The worst thing with the 1999 and newer OE ECU is that it it not truly live mapping i.e you have to stop the car to reflash, so you have to remember/edit things beforehand, then Reflash.
Other ECU are truly live i.e Apexi so you can make Cell by Cell changes immediately and get immediate response to change.