I ****ing Love Rallycross

[tbtstt]

Yeah, I know I've been know to harp on about it a bit, but I just watched the A final from last weekends round (Sweden) and it seems a good summary of why I think its such a great sport.

http://www.vimeo.com/26070852

Jumps, slides, anti-lag, a huge crash (where the driver is OK ) and the second place guy running out of steam 10 metres from the finish line (having driven most of the race with a puncture!). All in 5 laps. F1 can't manage to squeeze that much excitement out of 50.

[Steve_PPP]

great vid, must admit the course is much more entertaining than Lydden!

[Skullfudge]

I crewed for Steve Palmer and attended many with him in the early 90's when he was running in the Metro 6R4.

We knew Gollop, John Welsh, Martin Schanche, Mike Shields, Gary Baker, Dimi Mavaropois and the rest of them and we had some awesome weekends.

Welsh & Schanche were very hard to beat in those days as their cars were really quick. Steve was running a development 4.6 Goodmans engine in the 6R4 but due to his attitude problem lost his sponsorship from Practika. He didn't bother attending corporate weekends & such like for the sponsors and lost everything.
He done 90K of his own money by selling his electrical company and his house. His wife left him and now he has nothing.

These are the real stories behind the "hero's" seen on TV, and there are many other stories like that I could tell you.


In saying that it was brilliant fun being surrounded in Group B 's

[centurion73]

Love the Cross

Originally Posted by Skullfudge

I crewed for Steve Palmer and attended many with him in the early 90's when he was running in the Metro 6R4.

We knew Gollop, John Welsh, Martin Schanche, Mike Shields, Gary Baker, Dimi Mavaropois and the rest of them and we had some awesome weekends.

Welsh & Schanche were very hard to beat in those days as their cars were really quick. Steve was running a development 4.6 Goodmans engine in the 6R4 but due to his attitude problem lost his sponsorship from Practika. He didn't bother attending corporate weekends & such like for the sponsors and lost everything.
He done 90K of his own money by selling his electrical company and his house. His wife left him and now he has nothing.

These are the real stories behind the "hero's" seen on TV, and there are many other stories like that I could tell you.


In saying that it was brilliant fun being surrounded in Group B 's

Some very fond memories of watching the rally cross at brands
Loved the Welch gatrac escort, the yellow 900 odd bhp porsche and RS200's going side ways up towards druids, then tearing along the knife edge.
Right im off to watch some vids

[fieldy]

Originally Posted by centurion73

Love the Cross

quoting tbstt...........i f*cking love it too
remember watching it also on tv in 1990's

[tbtstt]

For anyone who enjoyed that first video I found the "proper" coverage of the race online:

http://www.vimeo.com/26125254

Skip to 44:30 (let the video stream before you try to skip forward) to see the crash again and skip to 45:35 to watch the re-run of the A final. I didn't realise from my original video that Isashsen (in the white Focus) was actually running the car on the nearside rim for most of the race: and still holding off the competition!

Bloody good meet, so worth watching the whole video if you have time.

Originally Posted by Skullfudge

We knew Gollop, John Welsh, Martin Schanche, Mike Shields, Gary Baker, Dimi Mavaropois and the rest of them and we had some awesome weekends.

Schanche and Gollop? I've never heard of them...

Originally Posted by Skullfudge

He done 90K of his own money by selling his electrical company and his house. His wife left him and now he has nothing.

Jesus. I've seen Palmers name in a lot of the older coverage but I didn't realise his rallycross days cleaned him out - or lost him his wife. Dedication to his sport taken too far?

Originally Posted by Skullfudge

These are the real stories behind the "hero's" seen on TV, and there are many other stories like that I could tell you.

Feel free to post more up; I'd happily read more about that era of rallycross!

Originally Posted by Skullfudge

In saying that it was brilliant fun being surrounded in Group B 's

I bet! I think the modern rallycross is brilliant and I do seriously love some of the cars they use today, but I never get bored of watching the DVD's of the late 80's and early 90's racing. Watching (and hearing) a grid full of Group B cars must have been an incredible spectacle; gutted I wasn't old enough to appreciate it at the time!

[tbtstt]

Sorry for the double post chaps, but I just saw the latest flyer for the August Bank Holiday rallycross at Lydden and not only do they have a special retro class (including some Group B cars) lined up, but Marcus Gronholm will be making his UK rallycross debut!

I'll pop a post up in the Events section presently!

[Skullfudge]

The yellow Porsche if I remember right was Gibson's.

One of the fastest cars was Dimi's Audi. That thing was mental.

At Brands one year a 15 yr old boy had won a Blue Peter competition and the first prize was two laps in Steve's Metro 6R4.
Jerry (Steve's Dad) & I fitted the spare seat and belted this young guy in.
After one lap we saw Steve coming back down the pit lane. We were thinking he may of blown something in the motor but as they got closer we could Steve smiling.
Before he had even stopped the young guys face was a glowing red and he was trying to open the door but never knew how to.
We opened it and he got out, only to throw his crash helmet on the floor and go marching off.
All of this was being filmed by the BBC lol.
The car frightened the fook out the boy and of course it was never shown on TV

[Steve_PPP]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

Sorry for the double post chaps, but I just saw the latest flyer for the August Bank Holiday rallycross at Lydden and not only do they have a special retro class (including some Group B cars) lined up, but Marcus Gronholm will be making his UK rallycross debut!

I'll pop a post up in the Events section presently!

Nice work

Will try and get to this if i can.

Brilliant video mate

If you stop the video at 4:19, check out just how far the tyre has moved across the rim!

[herbert]

Originally Posted by Steve_PPP

Nice work

Will try and get to this if i can.

So does that mean your going to come down to my neck of the woods I live 5mins from the track I can hear the racing some times . Ses meet at lydden could be good ?

[Steve_PPP]

Originally Posted by herbert

So does that mean your going to come down to my neck of the woods

You never know

There's a few of us on here who get to Lydden at least once a year

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by Skullfudge

At Brands one year a 15 yr old boy had won a Blue Peter competition and the first prize was two laps in Steve's Metro 6R4.
Jerry (Steve's Dad) & I fitted the spare seat and belted this young guy in.
After one lap we saw Steve coming back down the pit lane. We were thinking he may of blown something in the motor but as they got closer we could Steve smiling.
Before he had even stopped the young guys face was a glowing red and he was trying to open the door but never knew how to.
We opened it and he got out, only to throw his crash helmet on the floor and go marching off.
All of this was being filmed by the BBC lol.
The car frightened the fook out the boy and of course it was never shown on TV

I guess that was one young lad who wasn't converted into a rallycross fan then! I have often stated that I'd love to get a ride in one of the Supercars, though I do wonder if I'd **** myself at the acceleration!

There is talk now that Olsberg MSE (the "works" Ford rallycross team) will be providing one of the British drivers (David Binks) a car for the 2012 season. That would be brilliant news if true as the interest in major works teams in the British series has got to be a good thing (though of course it will make it harder for some of the private competitors to compete, which obviously isn't so good).

Rallycross is arriving at X-Games at the end of this month too. They had rallycross of sorts there last year, but they look like they will be doing a much better job of it this year (i.e. it will be a proper mixed circuit layout, not just a dirt oval as it was last year). Should be interesting to watch!

[Scott.T]

What amazes me is the money in euro rallycross teams.
UK guy's have a beaten up old caravan and a knackered trailer, the Swede's and Norge's have full on transporters and hospitality.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

What amazes me is the money in euro rallycross teams.
UK guy's have a beaten up old caravan and a knackered trailer, the Swede's and Norge's have full on transporters and hospitality.

Most of the drivers in all the National rallycross series are on relatively low budgets, its only a handful of drivers from each country that have the budget to afford to run a full ERC season.

Having said that there does seem to be more sponsorship available for national series drivers in some European countries (particularly those in the Scandinavian region), though I do think things are getting better in the UK. There have been more big name sponsors crop up at UK events in the last couple of years than in most of the years I've been watching rallycross. I daresay not as many as there were back in the 90's, but certainly more than there were 5 years ago.

I hope the trend continues and we see more UK drivers getting enough backing to run newer cars, and hopefully make the jump to Europe.

[Skullfudge]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

What amazes me is the money in euro rallycross teams.
UK guy's have a beaten up old caravan and a knackered trailer, the Swede's and Norge's have full on transporters and hospitality.

In many cases sponsors play a very little part in the big teams. Going by what I saw in the 90's it's the drivers that generate the monies involved.

Dimi Mavaropolis was one of the biggest fruit exporters in Greece, Gary Baker (RS200), his father owns Baker Construction, John Welch had his own company, Will Gollop owned a large motor franchise, Martin Schanche was loaded, Steve Palmer sold everything to race, Mark Renison owns a large motor company, Shields was into scrap metal, Matti Alamakis paid £100K to hire the Peugeot TE16 per season and had to return it in it's true form at the end of each year, and the list goes on.

It's near on the same now other than Rockstar like teams. The only reason Pat Doran is racing is because he sold his recycling company, although he now owns lydden race track no other owner has ever earned from owning that track. All have gone bust at one point.


Shields and Palmer would think nothing of leaving hotels in Europe without paying a thing. They would collect their cars from repair and not pay. There where LOADS of things like this that went on as I know the list of people that were after them. They owed money everywhere.

VERY few (if any) drivers had normal jobs with sponsorship paying for the sport as it falls in the same bracket as drag racing. They do not generate enough interest for big sponsorship despite being greats motorsports.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by Skullfudge

In many cases sponsors play a very little part in the big teams. Going by what I saw in the 90's it's the drivers that generate the monies involved.

Yeah. Unless it majorly blows up in America (and the effects of such roll over here) I can't see huge numbers of drivers relying on rallycross alone to survive - as you say most of the drivers, even those at the highest level in Europe, have "full time" jobs outside of the sport.

Originally Posted by Skullfudge

The only reason Pat Doran is racing is because he sold his recycling company, although he now owns lydden race track no other owner has ever earned from owning that track. All have gone bust at one point.

I didn't know Doran had sold up his company. Given the money that has been poured into Lydden I would think it would need to make some fairly serious money to pay off.

Originally Posted by Skullfudge

Shields and Palmer would think nothing of leaving hotels in Europe without paying a thing. They would collect their cars from repair and not pay. There where LOADS of things like this that went on as I know the list of people that were after them. They owed money everywhere.

Bloody hell. I can see why you are a bit cynical about the "hero" term for some drivers of that era.

[Skullfudge]

It's not just rallycross mate, it goes on everywhere.
Racing becomes a drug and many will go to extreme measures to continue.

They normally quit when all funds & family have gone but which time it's too late.
You need a never ending flow of spare cash (and lots of it) to race a car competitively.
The true expense of racing will normally be denied unless you are in talks with a big potential sponsor and they will hear the true figures involved.